Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: FLORIDA
Posts: 235
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Other papers are linking the report to the first "sighting" by the oil rig worker, the American pilot who 'found' the plane and this latest to the plane being in the area that was first talked about. The South China seas.........
Articles found by G**gle MH370 Tin Ankers
Maybe someone could bring this up at the news conference today ..
Articles found by G**gle MH370 Tin Ankers
Maybe someone could bring this up at the news conference today ..
Last edited by malc4d; 2nd May 2014 at 08:08.
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: WA
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BOING
Referencing back to Capt Kremin's post of long ago...
"If a 777 reaches has a route discountinuity in the FMC, it reverts to HDG mode. All the MCP setting are referenced on magnetic unless in the polar regions (80 degrees N or S) or the HDG REF button is pushed. That would be a deliberate act of someone who knows the systems and implications.
In the case of the "Ghost plane" scenario the aircraft, after it turned WNW would have been either tracking to a programmed FMC waypoint or it would have been in a lateral AP mode referenced on magnetic north, HDG or TRK, it does not really matter. If tracking to the FMC waypoint, once it reached it, it would have reverted to HDG."
Some of his earlier calculations based on the likely track have now been superseded by updated information due to continued analysis and therefore revised notions of direction, speed etc. But it does suggest the possibility that the plane could have been on AP for the most part of the southward curved leg of the track to suspected point of impact. That supports the idea that the flight path back to Malacca Strait and then WNW may have been controlled, whereas final leg south not necessarily.
The full post with Isogonal chart is available here:
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/5...-lost-377.html
"If a 777 reaches has a route discountinuity in the FMC, it reverts to HDG mode. All the MCP setting are referenced on magnetic unless in the polar regions (80 degrees N or S) or the HDG REF button is pushed. That would be a deliberate act of someone who knows the systems and implications.
In the case of the "Ghost plane" scenario the aircraft, after it turned WNW would have been either tracking to a programmed FMC waypoint or it would have been in a lateral AP mode referenced on magnetic north, HDG or TRK, it does not really matter. If tracking to the FMC waypoint, once it reached it, it would have reverted to HDG."
Some of his earlier calculations based on the likely track have now been superseded by updated information due to continued analysis and therefore revised notions of direction, speed etc. But it does suggest the possibility that the plane could have been on AP for the most part of the southward curved leg of the track to suspected point of impact. That supports the idea that the flight path back to Malacca Strait and then WNW may have been controlled, whereas final leg south not necessarily.
The full post with Isogonal chart is available here:
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/5...-lost-377.html
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Liverpool UK
Age: 71
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lithium Ion Batteries
Just to clear up a point.
There is a big difference between shipping Li-ion batteries and shipping equipment containing Li-ion batteries.
Li-ion batteries are classed as hazardous IMCO 9
BUT:- there is a special rule that says in certain circumstances, small Li-ion batteries installed in equipment, do not come under the full IATA Dangerous Goods regulations, and a declaration is sufficient.
Looking at the Airwaybill there is a declaration that Li-ion batteries are present.
The weight declared on the waybill is the total weight of the cargo, including all packaging. The weight of batteries will be considerably less.
The equipment must be shipped with the batteries in a low charge state, that is why you have to charge up a new camera, laptop etc.
For all hazardous material shipped by Air, Road, Rail or Sea the exporter gives a declaration that the goods are packed in accordance with the relevant regulations, and the carrier accepts that. Though in fairness most carriers do random hazardous cargo checks, and bear in mind that it is a criminal offence in most countries to deliberatly miss-declare hazardous cargo.
In short there appears to be no problem with this shipment provided that the cargo was equipment containing Li-ion batteries.
And before anybody asks I work in the shipping industry as a Hazardous Cargo Surveyor.
There is a big difference between shipping Li-ion batteries and shipping equipment containing Li-ion batteries.
Li-ion batteries are classed as hazardous IMCO 9
BUT:- there is a special rule that says in certain circumstances, small Li-ion batteries installed in equipment, do not come under the full IATA Dangerous Goods regulations, and a declaration is sufficient.
Looking at the Airwaybill there is a declaration that Li-ion batteries are present.
The weight declared on the waybill is the total weight of the cargo, including all packaging. The weight of batteries will be considerably less.
The equipment must be shipped with the batteries in a low charge state, that is why you have to charge up a new camera, laptop etc.
For all hazardous material shipped by Air, Road, Rail or Sea the exporter gives a declaration that the goods are packed in accordance with the relevant regulations, and the carrier accepts that. Though in fairness most carriers do random hazardous cargo checks, and bear in mind that it is a criminal offence in most countries to deliberatly miss-declare hazardous cargo.
In short there appears to be no problem with this shipment provided that the cargo was equipment containing Li-ion batteries.
And before anybody asks I work in the shipping industry as a Hazardous Cargo Surveyor.
Props are for boats!
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: An Asian Hub
Age: 56
Posts: 994
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not sure what you're implying, but the amount of Li-on batteries contained WAS compliant with IATA regulations. Care to elaborate if you disagree with this?
Those IATA Packing instructions for Lithium Ion Batteries are a nightmare to read and understand. I believe after ICAO Malaysian conference this month they will get the heave ho again as the did last year temporarily.
UPS Flt 6 Dubai in 2010 and ASIANA Cargo Flt 991 in near Jeju Island 2011. Saw the amendment last year to change them.
Honestly, Lithium ion Batteries as cargo on pax aircraft in any quantity surely now has to be stopped.
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: 3rd rock
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
bay of bengal
"Joint Action Coordination Centre (JACC) Chief Coordinator Angus Houston said currently, three Bangladeshi navy ships were scouring the area, with one of the ships equipped with echo sound capability to assist in ensuring a thorough search in that particular area."
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Dublin
Posts: 987
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's quite difficult to understand why others involved in this investigation such as the NTSB, FAA and AAIB haven't expressed even the slightest dissatisfaction at the weakness and simplicity of the MoT's preliminary report on Flight MH370.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@Sober Lark
I would suggest that 'quite difficult to understand' is not a strong enough description.
How about 'quite unbelievable'?
It's quite difficult to understand why others involved in this investigation such as the NTSB, FAA and AAIB haven't expressed even the slightest dissatisfaction at the weakness and simplicity of the MoT's preliminary report on Flight MH370.
How about 'quite unbelievable'?
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Cyprus
Age: 76
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All along there has been either a reluctance to reveal facts or in some cases misinformation. eg do we know the fuel load, do we have any outstanding ADDs,
do we have a hard copy of this "radar trace" tracked by the military, do we have a full cargo manifest, do we have an explanation of the large dangerous cargo shipment. All of the above are not state secrets and surely if the Airline wants this solved then the more hard facts published is the only way to solve this mystery.
Ultimately I believe this incident is a variation of the Helios disaster, but how and why??
do we have a hard copy of this "radar trace" tracked by the military, do we have a full cargo manifest, do we have an explanation of the large dangerous cargo shipment. All of the above are not state secrets and surely if the Airline wants this solved then the more hard facts published is the only way to solve this mystery.
Ultimately I believe this incident is a variation of the Helios disaster, but how and why??
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: LAX
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's quite difficult to understand why others involved in this investigation such as the NTSB, FAA and AAIB haven't expressed even the slightest dissatisfaction at the weakness and simplicity of the MoT's preliminary report on Flight MH370.
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: uk
Posts: 180
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
please, leave things to the experts. ntsb and aaib are sitting alongside the MH investigators and probably wrote the report. all it contains is the facts so far known and which I may say now gives us onlookers the first clear timeline of events. the time for criticism will come in the final report which could be years away.
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: WA
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To be fair there are a few other factors such as a total lack of debris or tangible signs of the aircraft's demise to this point. Nevertheless would be nice to have those facts that are known fleshed out more substantially.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Cyprus
Age: 76
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Leaving things to the experts is obviously the "why & how" part of the solution. The trouble is the relatives do not have closure which is why a funeral is held.
Years ago I attended the funeral of the mid air collision between the BEA Trident & the Yugoslavian DC9. The coffin clearly only held bricks but his widow could now seek a solution & move on.
I believe the a/c is close to where the search is/has been processed. The authorities have got some some background help whether from Satellite pings or other tracking by the US or Chinese. With better subs, then I am sure it will be found.
Years ago I attended the funeral of the mid air collision between the BEA Trident & the Yugoslavian DC9. The coffin clearly only held bricks but his widow could now seek a solution & move on.
I believe the a/c is close to where the search is/has been processed. The authorities have got some some background help whether from Satellite pings or other tracking by the US or Chinese. With better subs, then I am sure it will be found.
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Within AM radio broadcast range of downtown Chicago
Age: 71
Posts: 839
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Relating to MoT report
Critique the MoT report? Well...memories evidently are short (though the thread is not).....not long ago posters with experience and credentials to deserve respect for their knowledge derided or at least downplayed questions as to whether the 30-day timeline would be met (that is, the ICAO Annex 13 timeline for prelim reports). Some posters even questioned whether such a report even was indicated (or, required) in the first place - standing on the perception that the "Contact Lost" incident of MH370 might turn out to have been a deliberate act and hence not an investigatory context as an Annex 13 enquiry nominally would be.
So MoT, working under a paradigm of incident not previously defined, specifically one defying logic- and technical-based analysis, hews to the Annex 13 process with material and substantial adherence thereto ..... in other words, they complied, substantially, given the ungodly unique factual knowns AND unknowns.
Shoot the scope and depth of the report full of holes if you enjoy the exercise, but I'll wager that the higher-level authorities (especially AAIB and NTSB) are in synch with how the Malaysian MoT has proceeded relative to the reporting process.
So MoT, working under a paradigm of incident not previously defined, specifically one defying logic- and technical-based analysis, hews to the Annex 13 process with material and substantial adherence thereto ..... in other words, they complied, substantially, given the ungodly unique factual knowns AND unknowns.
Shoot the scope and depth of the report full of holes if you enjoy the exercise, but I'll wager that the higher-level authorities (especially AAIB and NTSB) are in synch with how the Malaysian MoT has proceeded relative to the reporting process.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: FLORIDA
Posts: 235
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 7,072
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
" if the Airline wants this solved then the more hard facts published is the only way to solve this mystery."
How - so that everyone at PPRUNE can give their expert opinion?
If the relevant authorities and manufacturers have unpublished facts what does the Great Public and the meeja add to the solving the problem?
Just acres of supposition and finger pointing
How - so that everyone at PPRUNE can give their expert opinion?
If the relevant authorities and manufacturers have unpublished facts what does the Great Public and the meeja add to the solving the problem?
Just acres of supposition and finger pointing
Join Date: May 2012
Location: London, UK
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@LGMX. Lithium reacts with water to produce Lithium Hydroxide and Hydrogen. Lithium Hydroxide is already present in seawater in fairly high proportions (around 0.2 parts per million - around 230 billion tonnes of Lithium, world-wide) - a tonne extra would be, well, a drop in the ocean.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: btw SAMAR and TOSPA
Posts: 566
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just listened to the ATC tape.
There is NOTHING unusal in it.
This is total professional and calm communication.
Just responding to the frequency change to HCM 120.9 with a "Good night, Malaysian 370" is typical for someone who has flown this route very often, knows the next frequency by heart anyway or/and even has predialled it in the COM set.
The only thing that is a little unusal is the repeated report to be at level 350. But these things can happen.
A terrible piece of recording knowing that a few moments later hell broke loose (one way or the other)
There is NOTHING unusal in it.
This is total professional and calm communication.
Just responding to the frequency change to HCM 120.9 with a "Good night, Malaysian 370" is typical for someone who has flown this route very often, knows the next frequency by heart anyway or/and even has predialled it in the COM set.
The only thing that is a little unusal is the repeated report to be at level 350. But these things can happen.
A terrible piece of recording knowing that a few moments later hell broke loose (one way or the other)
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: uk
Posts: 180
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
re atc tape. the time interval between 370 first on radio and signing off is 53 minutes. in the report the tape covering that time period only lasts 7 minutes so there must be plenty of splices perhaps explaining the noises-off. there were 7 minutes of real time between the repeats of level at 350. I am curious about another tape I have heard which had lumpur radar tell 370 to contact HCM three times. the aircraft did not respond until the third. will try to find tape again.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: btw SAMAR and TOSPA
Posts: 566
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
re atc tape. the time interval between 370 first on radio and signing off is 53 minutes. in the report the tape covering that time period only lasts 7 minutes so there must be plenty of splices perhaps explaining the noises-off. there were 7 minutes of real time between the repeats of level at 350. I am curious about another tape I have heard which had lumpur radar tell 370 to contact HCM three times. the aircraft did not respond until the third. will try to find tape again.
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: California
Posts: 154
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@LGMX. Lithium reacts with water to produce Lithium Hydroxide and Hydrogen. Lithium Hydroxide is already present in seawater in fairly high proportions (around 0.2 parts per million - around 230 billion tonnes of Lithium, world-wide) - a tonne extra would be, well, a drop in the ocean.
The general problem with lithium batteries is that they pack a substantial amount of energy. A short in a fully charged lithium battery can easily heat it by 200 degrees Celsius. If there's another lithium battery nearby, this heat can short it and cause it to release its own energy, etc. in a chain reaction. That's why we have specific packing requirements for the transport of lithium batteries. We need the packaging to contain and isolate any individual short that occurs.