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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Old 9th Apr 2014, 03:45
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For those who read my yesterday (deleted) post about a YouTube film with an alleged recent in-flight visit to the avionics bay of a 777.
I am a little ashamed to have added this comment: 'secutity improvement?' (or something like that) which implied the movie was recent. The truth is that the "date added" of the movie (2014/03/18) NOT implies the movie was recorded since MH370 disparition. And a better look at it (what I should have done before posting) shows it is not:
- the cabin layout seems not very recent ... and it is not: at 7:16, you can read on the exit door 'SAIDA EXIT' (so the company is probably Portuguese) and at 7:23 the name VAR?? is then probably VARIG right font on the sheet of the crew rest bed). The four first letters of the same name were also visible under the oxygen tank at 6:12. This company is out from 2006.
- in the E-E bay, avionics are labelled AlliedSignal (in one word, at 4:51). This name was in use from 1993 to 1999 (see AlliedSignal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).
I have not be able to find a picture with the same attendant uniform/apron as seen at 00:30.
The crew rest zone don't look like what I can see on 777 net pictures. Is it one?

There is no other video posted on YouTube by the pseudo Jack Jones. So, no credit. And unknown afterthought from the poster.
So ... post deletion was normal!

I do think the movie has been registered on a France to Brazil (or return) flight: at 1:08 the guide (first officer?) said 'Bon, maintenant' [French] and continues in English (not is native, for sure). And the one who has the camera answer 'D'accord' [French] between 1:49 and 1:50. But it is not from me!
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Old 9th Apr 2014, 03:52
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Angus Houston says;
Pings are heard twice more on Tuesday. Analysis of the previous pings have confirmed that they are from man made device and consistent with the expected FDR/CVR pingger. This included the 1.1sec delay in the pings. They are still going ahead with trying out TPL to get more data. The time to launch the unmanned sub with side scan sonar is undecided.

So overall it seems another small but important step closer to locating MH370. Lets hope there is some conclusion soon to the families.
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Old 9th Apr 2014, 04:11
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BBC Also updated story to include latest graphic of all 4 ping detection locations.

BBC News - Missing Malaysia plane: Search 'regains recorder signal'
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Old 9th Apr 2014, 04:53
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JACC map of 4 ping detections Apr 9

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Old 9th Apr 2014, 04:57
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Triangulation or other pin-pointing, possibly made easier if its just the FDR emanating signals not both, still has the complications of refraction and reflection from the thermal layers; perhaps other meterological issues.

This therefore could take some time - certainly days not hours; with the other vessels kept away (looking for drifted debris) to keep the sound environs as clean as possible while more acoustic events are sought.
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Old 9th Apr 2014, 06:14
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Check out this graphic from Washington Post. Just shows what they are up against!


The depth of the problem - The Washington Post

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Old 9th Apr 2014, 06:16
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According to the Australian Joint Acoustic Analysis Centre the pings detected are not "of natural origin".

One more step closer.
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Old 9th Apr 2014, 06:31
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FYI Malaysia and Indonesia now deny any evidence exists pointing to the so-called skirt-around-Indonesia track.

MH370 search: Plane had not skirted to Indonesian airspace as reported by CNN, says Hisham - Nation | The Star Online

The crashed Malaysia Airlines flight, MH370 had not skirted Indonesian airspace in a bid to evade radar detection as reported by CNN, said acting Transport Minister Datuk Seri Hishammuddin Hussein (pic).

"I got the Chief of the Malaysian Defence Force to contact his Indonesian counterpart, and they have confirmed they have had no sighting of the plane," said Hishammuddin at the MH370 press conference held at the Royal Chulan here on Monday.
I am of the view that MH370 never went west at all but instead had an in-flight emergency and turned south towards the nearest airfield, one they'd recently flown over. Turn, drop alt. Decompression/hypoxia, all aboard dead, miss approach. Zombie flight magically goes all the way to where they are searching now.
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Old 9th Apr 2014, 06:56
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Originally Posted by Sheep Guts
Check out this graphic from Washington Post. Just shows what they are up against!

The depth of the problem - The Washington Post

Agree, great graphic but there is a question unanswered. If the depth of the hydrophone is 4,600ft and they are correct that it would have to be at 6,000ft to have detected the ULB, then either the hydrophone depth is wrong, or their opinion of the pinger range is wrong (9,000 feet - 2289m) or the pinger is not as deep as 15,000ft.

As they did not seem to pass on top the pinger, maybe it is not even at 15,000ft.
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Old 9th Apr 2014, 06:59
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I notice on Live Ships Map - AIS - Vessel Traffic and Positions - AIS Marine Traffic they have the search area marked out so you can see the ships working within that section.
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Old 9th Apr 2014, 07:07
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Confirming that the Bluefin 21 UAV has reportedly not yet been launched as of the last press conference for the reason 500N specified (narrowing down the search area with the pinger locator first). Seems to me someone said a 3rd pinger hit would be the trigger for launching the UAV and now they have a 3rd and a 4th so I'd expect to the UAV in the water any time now.

As to the lack of debris, is it possible the plane is mostly intact? They did get 2 separate pinger signals (could one be an echo?). I would think that the vertical entry being talked about as a reason for no debris would smash things up but good, perhaps even destroying the pingers. To my mind a gentle landing with the plane in mostly one piece would explain the lack of debris and the still functioning pingers better than a vertical dive.
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Old 9th Apr 2014, 07:09
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How deep?

At 20°53'S 103°58'E the water depth is 18,160 feet (5,535 meters) and well beyond the ability of the Blue Fin 21 AUV. This job could well need the Remus AUVs used during the AF447 search.

Last edited by mm43; 9th Apr 2014 at 07:16. Reason: lat was wrong
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Old 9th Apr 2014, 07:15
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At 23°53'S 103°58'E the water depth is 18,160 feet (5,535 meters) and well beyond the ability of the Blue Fin 21 UAV. This job could well need the Remus UAVs used during the AF447 search.
I'm thinking the main thing for it to do would be a good side scan sonar mapping, what depth can it do for that.

Yes a good visual at optical would be good. But I think that at the depths where talking about, a solid confirmation on anything and its position would be a godsend.

Then good practical planning with the right equipment can be done on what can be recovered.
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Old 9th Apr 2014, 07:27
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A great graphic from the Washington Post, that really puts the problem into perspective. However, I'm amused to see that like most media sources, they can't get their heads around Metric to Imperial conversion.

The two whales can dive to precisely 3280' and 9816'? Really?

How about "about 1000 m" and "about 3000 m"?
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Old 9th Apr 2014, 07:28
  #9555 (permalink)  
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They would probably need to Sonar map the area from the surface before sending the Blue Fin down. So when the they decide to stop using the TPL-25. They will sonar map the area for sure with either HMS Echo purposely built for the job or an RAN ship which I'm not unsure if they are in the area. They Royal Australian Navy have I think 6 survey ships with 4 being hydrographic.
Surveying Ship (AGS) | Royal Australian Navy

Just looking at the Australian Navy website the 2 AGS vessels don't seem to have commanders at the moment so maybe they are in dry dock or servicing who knows. Or the website is out of date.
If that's the case the HMS ECHO will be it for sure.

Last edited by Sheep Guts; 9th Apr 2014 at 07:38.
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Old 9th Apr 2014, 07:32
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I'm thinking the main thing for it to do would be a good side scan sonar mapping, what depth can it do for that.
This could be the equipment for that task:

World's only three Abyss submarines sent to Indian Ocean for plane search - Telegraph
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Old 9th Apr 2014, 07:39
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what is really needed is another couple of boats to pick up the same signal at the same time to enable triangulation

at the moment it looks as if we're getting point detections - you sail towards the last one and listen and hope the next one comes from roughly the same direction
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Old 9th Apr 2014, 07:54
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Heathrow Harry,


Commodore Leavy said that P-3C Orions would drop sonar buoys in the water today around the area of the Ocean Shield search area. He was saying during the JACC news conference today the RAAF technicians had modified the sonar buoys to detect 37.5 KHZ signal. He described how when sonar buoys hit the water they drop on a 1000ft wire a hydrophone into the sea below.

They cant afford to have other vessels in the area as it contaminates the sound signature and introduces more background noises. The TPL-25 is towed a few Kilometres behind the vessel at around 2 knots. And all the Ocean shield unnecessary equipment is switched off.


So its a one ship job until the pinger is out of power and or they decide they have enough returns to calculate a reasonable search area.
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Old 9th Apr 2014, 08:08
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This could be the equipment for that task

Thanks "skadi" for that link.

World's only three Abyss submarines sent to Indian Ocean for plane search - Telegraph

It may explain why HMAS Toowoomba is making turns for her published maximum speed.
As shown on Marine Traffic she appears to be headed for Exmouth/Learmonth on Australia's North West Cape. Exmouth has a port and Learmonth is is a joint user facility with a runway (3,047m) suitable for large airplanes.

Live Ships Map - AIS - Vessel Traffic and Positions - AIS Marine Traffic
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Old 9th Apr 2014, 08:09
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I think that calling it a "pinger" is a bit misleading.

It's a towed listening device - the sonar pings are produced by the main vessel

The reason it's towed is to keep it some kilometers from the ship noise so it has a wider area to listen to
innaflap,

Your reply is even more misleading!

The ADV Ocean Shield is NOT putting out any pings. The towed pinger locator is purely a passive device, listening for the 37.5 kHz ultrasound signal from the CVR and FDR pingers.

The reason the cable is very long (several thousand metres) is that it is the only way you can "fly" the towed pinger locator at its operational depth, when the Ocean Shield is moving at two or three knots. It is NOT to do with ship noise. The length of the cable is also the reason that turn arounds take so long. I read somewhere that much of the cable is reeled in before turning and then let out again.
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