Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost
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And you don't want to be doing those types of discussions "on the run". "off the cuff" and in front of the world wide media as we all know where that would end up.
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jmj and 6330
None of this legal eagle/"marketing strategy" talk plays into the current situation in any way. Boeing and other commercial interests are barred from releasing information by international law and treaty agreement. So are any governments outside of Malaysia.
The Australians have taken the lead in SAR and as such will disseminate information regarding that part of the MH370 saga, but the primary control of information on the loss of flight MH370 remains with the Malaysian government.
The Australians have taken the lead in SAR and as such will disseminate information regarding that part of the MH370 saga, but the primary control of information on the loss of flight MH370 remains with the Malaysian government.
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"Surely Boeing will be able to explain all how the ACARS, Transponders, Batteries on ELT and the CVR/DFDR as well as their technical functioning issues much better than all the agencies put together. After all it is their most advanced technology in the 777.
Sharing of these in public by Boeing will enhance the investigation and search procedures considerably instead of beating around several false leads which are just feeding speculation and have wasted more than 3 weeks of time."
Boeing don't need to explain the workings of all these mentioned systems. The relevant search and investigative authorities already know how they all work and making all this information public will not enhance anything except provide information to people with ill- intent. Leave the investigation to the experts and when the boxes are found and the accident investigation complete, then all the relevant facts will be known. Media speculation and sensationalism (never let the truth get in the way of a good story) are not facts and are purely designed to sell newspapers no thought given to the families,friends and colleagues of those who are missing. We all want and need answers. They will come but it takes time.
Sharing of these in public by Boeing will enhance the investigation and search procedures considerably instead of beating around several false leads which are just feeding speculation and have wasted more than 3 weeks of time."
Boeing don't need to explain the workings of all these mentioned systems. The relevant search and investigative authorities already know how they all work and making all this information public will not enhance anything except provide information to people with ill- intent. Leave the investigation to the experts and when the boxes are found and the accident investigation complete, then all the relevant facts will be known. Media speculation and sensationalism (never let the truth get in the way of a good story) are not facts and are purely designed to sell newspapers no thought given to the families,friends and colleagues of those who are missing. We all want and need answers. They will come but it takes time.
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How about a list of best posts?
Folks, I think now would be a fine time for some busy beaver to make a list of the best posts on various categories and post it each day.
That way, we don't have new folks coming and bringing up stories already debunked.
Let me make an example: don't you think any posts about cargo fires need to take into account posts #8155 and #7596?
BTW, looking back on those posts, Albert Driver said:
Your Halon cans are good for your ETOPS time for your particular plane = up to 330 minutes + some extra just because.
That way, we don't have new folks coming and bringing up stories already debunked.
Let me make an example: don't you think any posts about cargo fires need to take into account posts #8155 and #7596?
BTW, looking back on those posts, Albert Driver said:
Cargo Fire:
The T7 is fully equipped with cargo fire detection and suppression for some 30 minutes or so (T7 drivers will fill in the number).
The T7 is fully equipped with cargo fire detection and suppression for some 30 minutes or so (T7 drivers will fill in the number).
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"Sharing of these in public by Boeing will enhance the investigation and search procedures considerably instead of beating around several false leads which are just feeding speculation and have wasted more than 3 weeks of time.""
Jumbo
Exactly as you said.
No, it won't enhance the investigation one bit, in fact it would just make more noise with even more wild theories.
If any of the agencies have any questions of Boeing, they would pick up the phone and ask them, that is if Boeing hasn't already got a liaison person on site.
Jumbo
Exactly as you said.
No, it won't enhance the investigation one bit, in fact it would just make more noise with even more wild theories.
If any of the agencies have any questions of Boeing, they would pick up the phone and ask them, that is if Boeing hasn't already got a liaison person on site.
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Flying ATC
A modified 737 is to act as a flying air traffic controller over the search zone to prevent a collision between the numerous aircraft now tasked with searching for debris. This lonely stretch of Indian Ocean has become a busy place!
MH370 Tragedy: Australia to deploy flying air traffic controller - Latest - New Straits Times
MH370 Tragedy: Australia to deploy flying air traffic controller - Latest - New Straits Times
Last edited by Blake777; 1st Apr 2014 at 06:07. Reason: Double post
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"Boeing Statement on Malaysia Airlines Flight 370
SEATTLE, March 24, 2014 - Boeing is saddened by the March 24 announcement by the prime minister of Malaysia regarding Malaysia Airlines Flight 370. Our thoughts and deepest sympathies continue to be with the families and loved ones of those aboard. Boeing continues to serve as a technical advisor to the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board."
SEATTLE, March 24, 2014 - Boeing is saddened by the March 24 announcement by the prime minister of Malaysia regarding Malaysia Airlines Flight 370. Our thoughts and deepest sympathies continue to be with the families and loved ones of those aboard. Boeing continues to serve as a technical advisor to the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board."
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"Sharing of these in public by Boeing will enhance the investigation and search procedures considerably instead of beating around several false leads which are just feeding speculation and have wasted more than 3 weeks of time.""
The Boeing lawyers will almost certainly have a blanket ban on any discussion by Boeing on their involvement, the plane etc outside the official circles.
The Boeing lawyers will almost certainly have a blanket ban on any discussion by Boeing on their involvement, the plane etc outside the official circles.
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I would presume that this tightening up reported by Malaysian Airports is due to the footage released of the pilots walking through the gates with jackets on, and setting off an alarm, yet not being searched or asked to remove metal objects and being re checked. Everyone wants to trust pilots, but obviously, the checks need to be as stringent for them as anyone else.
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Australia Settles In For Long Haul
Having realized that there is no detectable debris on ocean surface in their search areas and that resolving this incident will take a long time, Australia has set up a dedicated Joint Agency Coordination Center with a retired defense chief as its head.
"As the search and recovery process may take some time, the Australian Government is seeking to provide a single point of contact for affected parties, while also taking into account the interests of other stakeholders.
The JACC will continue the close cooperation with the Government of Malaysia, which under international law has overall responsibility for the search, and with Malaysia Airlines.
The JACC will not be performing any search, recovery or investigation activities. These will remain the responsibility of the expert agencies.
Air Chief Marshal Angus Houston AC, AFC (Ret'd) will be leading the JACC to coordinate various aspects of the search on the ground."
Joint Agency Coordination Centre
"As the search and recovery process may take some time, the Australian Government is seeking to provide a single point of contact for affected parties, while also taking into account the interests of other stakeholders.
The JACC will continue the close cooperation with the Government of Malaysia, which under international law has overall responsibility for the search, and with Malaysia Airlines.
The JACC will not be performing any search, recovery or investigation activities. These will remain the responsibility of the expert agencies.
Air Chief Marshal Angus Houston AC, AFC (Ret'd) will be leading the JACC to coordinate various aspects of the search on the ground."
Joint Agency Coordination Centre
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A moving ocean
Can anyone explain why search effort is again taking place over the areas already searched before?
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After weeks of search not a single item belonging to MH370 has been found.
It has vanished.
My personal view as B777 Captain:
no structural damage, smoke/fire condition or other non normal event could have prevented the pilot to transmit a distress signal.
If for any reason any of the above situation could have developped into a rapid loss consciousness and control by the pilots the aircraft would then have crashed somewhere in the proximate area of the event.
Initiation of an unlawfull interference would have given the pilots time to either set ATC code of transmit on VHF (even blind) and trace of it would then exist.
Without the intent to bring blame to anyone without having proof of it I can see the following scenario:
- A pilot wants to disappear without leaving trace and by doing so creating a situation putting a governemt in the international spotlight and only by leaving no trace, whatever the cost, will the action be successful.
- Once set on the task the pilot would, at an appropriate time, take control of the flightdeck.
- At a FIR ATC change over, disable Transponder (switch) and ACARS (cb's) and turn to the new course
- Cabin crew and eventually passengers could become a 'threat' .
Manual depressurization of the aircraft and a climb will within 22 minutes exaust the passenger oxygen whilst the freezing temperature takes care of any cabin crew member eventualy gone on portable oxygen.
- From then on the flight continues on a pre-planned course and level to avoid VHF and direct radar coverage.
- Once reached the area with a deep ocean bottom and before running out of fuel the pilot, as smoothly as possible (FCTM 8.5), ditches the aircraft
- No doors are opened and the aircraft sinks in one single unit without leaving debries.
The aircraft has vanished.
It has vanished.
My personal view as B777 Captain:
no structural damage, smoke/fire condition or other non normal event could have prevented the pilot to transmit a distress signal.
If for any reason any of the above situation could have developped into a rapid loss consciousness and control by the pilots the aircraft would then have crashed somewhere in the proximate area of the event.
Initiation of an unlawfull interference would have given the pilots time to either set ATC code of transmit on VHF (even blind) and trace of it would then exist.
Without the intent to bring blame to anyone without having proof of it I can see the following scenario:
- A pilot wants to disappear without leaving trace and by doing so creating a situation putting a governemt in the international spotlight and only by leaving no trace, whatever the cost, will the action be successful.
- Once set on the task the pilot would, at an appropriate time, take control of the flightdeck.
- At a FIR ATC change over, disable Transponder (switch) and ACARS (cb's) and turn to the new course
- Cabin crew and eventually passengers could become a 'threat' .
Manual depressurization of the aircraft and a climb will within 22 minutes exaust the passenger oxygen whilst the freezing temperature takes care of any cabin crew member eventualy gone on portable oxygen.
- From then on the flight continues on a pre-planned course and level to avoid VHF and direct radar coverage.
- Once reached the area with a deep ocean bottom and before running out of fuel the pilot, as smoothly as possible (FCTM 8.5), ditches the aircraft
- No doors are opened and the aircraft sinks in one single unit without leaving debries.
The aircraft has vanished.
short flights long nights
Maybe not exactly, but I'm starting to think along the same lines as well.
I think it’s fair to say that the ‘pilot suicide’ scenario is, based on what is known and can be credibly inferred, the least improbable.
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1. By all indications, the aircraft either ran out of fuel, or in any event came within 1 hour from running out of fuel. What's the point of taking the aircraft that far out? It could have been ditched in exactly the same manner in South China Sea, for the added benefit that it would never have to go within sight of land after leaving Malaysia. If the pilot was afraid that shipping lanes in South China Sea were too dense and created a risk of someone seeing the ditching, there's Philippine Sea, and there are hundreds of thousands of square miles of desolate 15000' deep ocean within 1 hour's flight from Straits of Malacca.
2. Ditching as described would require perfect surface conditions. Roaring 40's would be the last possible place to hope finding these conditions. Take a look at historical weather satellite imaging here: https://earthdata.nasa.gov/labs/worldview/ On the night in question. East Bay of Bengal could have worked, but the actual search area looks pretty bad.
P.S. My 1st point above touches on a bigger conceptual problem. We are presented with a sequence of actions and we're trying to find an overarching explanation (and we naturally end up leaning towards ditching/suicide). But even within this sequence, its parts don't logically flow into each other.
* It is not necessary or logical to ditch/suicide in the Indian Ocean when you're flying out of Malaysia in the northeasterly direction.
* Even if you choose to ditch/suicide in the Indian Ocean, it is not necessary or logical to do this in the area where everyone is looking. Natural/logical choices are (1) Bay of Bengal, (2) middle of the ocean (halfway between Australia and Madagascar).
* Even if you choose to ditch/suicide in that specific spot (maybe you're aiming for Diamantina Trench, even though Mariana Trench would be deeper, equally as accessible, and therefore more logical), there's no reason to do a U-turn across Malaysia and then veer north towards Andaman Islands. As long as you're crossing land, might as well take a direct route and cross Java.
However, all of these difficulties hinge on a single assumption - final destination in southeastern Indian Ocean. Without that piece of data, all others point in the opposite direction: towards most likely final destination northwest or possibly west of Andaman Islands. The aircraft was systematically taken off the original course and placed on a standard route which, without further deviations, would have put it in the Persian Gulf. It could have deviated from the route at a later point, and we'd need more information to narrow down the destination, but any destination there would present a more coherent picture than what we have.
Last edited by hamster3null; 1st Apr 2014 at 08:27.
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AVM Angus Houston calling a spade a spade, and that "it may never be found".
Wreckage of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 may never be found: Angus Houston
Re "The biggest looser in this episode are Malaysian Govt and MAS. Their credibility has nosedived and fares of MAS have tumbled."
Self inflicted by the Malaysian Govt.
Wreckage of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 may never be found: Angus Houston
Re "The biggest looser in this episode are Malaysian Govt and MAS. Their credibility has nosedived and fares of MAS have tumbled."
Self inflicted by the Malaysian Govt.