VinRouge

Assuming the FDR hadn't been disabled at he same time as the comms.

Is there an sfdr cb?

Telegraph reporting flight investigators considering 'suicide mission' and jet was deliberately crashed.

If I was the co, there is no fekking way that door would be standing after 7 hours, even if I had to use a fire axe to chop my way through the forward bulkhead.

barit1

Several years back in another thread, there was a reference to an optional FMS feature addressing the emergency descent case. IIRC it was autonomous - rapid decompression would cause a 90 degree turn and max rate descent.

I've not been successful in tracking this down via PPRuNe search. Any ideas?

500N

" Telegraph reporting flight investigators considering 'suicide mission' and jet was deliberately crashed. "


Media speculation, trying to hype a story.
EVERYTHING will be on the table as to cause.

tangolimasierra

Ok, like everyone else I feel for the families of those who have lost their lives. But I do have to say something about the attitude of the relatives, if the reports of the behaviour is true. No matter what happened on that airplane, the behaviour of the Chinese relatives and their disrespect to the Malaysian authorities is disturbing. I am willing to wager that they would not have acted this way towards their own government if it had been a Chinese aircraft. The Malaysian government may have made some mistakes in the presentation of information, but I do feel that they were trying to do they best in very difficult circumstances. I have been very impressed by the Defence Minister and Acting Minister of Transport and I have never previously been one to praise members of that particular government.

oldoberon

that is good of you to say so, hope others follow.

offa

Source: Flight 370's altitude dropped after sharp turn Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia (CNN) -- As a growing number of airplanes scoured the southern Indian Ocean in the search for Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, authorities released new details that paint a different picture of what may have happened in the plane's cockpit.
Military radar tracking shows that the aircraft changed altitude after making a sharp turn over the South China Sea as it headed toward the Strait of Malacca, a source close to the investigation into the missing flight told CNN. The plane flew as low as 12,000 feet at some point before it disappeared from radar, according to the source.
The sharp turn seemed to be intentional, the source said, because executing it would have taken the Boeing 777 two minutes -- a time period during which the pilot or co-pilot could have sent an emergency signal if there had been a fire or other emergency onboard.
Authorities say the plane didn't send any emergency signals, though some analysts say it's still unclear whether the pilots tried but weren't able to communicate because of a catastrophic failure.

Unixman

Could someone just run the following bit of physics past them to see if I have got the important point about the Doppler shift right?

If the satellite was absolutely fixed then the Doppler shift would be the same irrespective of whether the plane was heading north or south BUT the sun and moon cause a slight - but predictable - wobble in the orbit of the satellite and since that wobble is also N/S that will add a very small but measurable extra value in the existing Doppler shift. If the satellite was heading south at the same time as the plane then the Doppler effect would be squeezed by a tiny bit and the wavelength decreased - ie very slightly blue-shifted. If the satellite was moving north whilst the plane was heading south then the radio wavelength would be stretched - very slightly red shifted.

Have I got that correct ?

LegallyBlonde

Confirmation of pax and crew numbers -

On behalf of all of us at Malaysia Airlines and all Malaysians, our prayers go out to all the loved ones of the 226 passengers and of our 13 friends and colleagues at this enormously painful time.

MH370 Flight Incident | Malaysia Airlines

Passenger manifest -
http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/cont...ationality.pdf

mm43

That is correct.

VinRouge

Doppler was mentioned 10 days ago on here, was discounted as a location technique, together with the South Indian Ocean location they have probably found the jet in as tin foil hat conspiracist theory.

It wa postulated that the jet would be found either close in or at max range.

VinRouge

Would the 406 ELT work inside a faraday cage, with no ability for gps signal reception or comms with sarsat?

Pontius Navigator

If a cell phone works . . .

We have once been alerted to an emergency beacon on 243MHz. It turned out to be one of our own so that signal had certainly escaped the cage.

GQ2

Currently, we still know almost nothing FACTUAL about this incident. There has been some outstanding comment and contribution in this thread. There are a lot of theories, but also, a lot of hot air from many who know nothing and some who should know better. There have been numerous idiotic comments in this thread blaming the crew, directly or indirectly. Since most of the so-called 'facts' implicating the crew seem to have faded-away, along with much else, it is simply unacceptable to post as though this was a done-deal. It ain't, - not by a long way. It's just one of a whole bunch of theories as yet.
This has been an unprecedented incident, and the causes, effects and remedies will gain no clarity whatsoever by unjustly and prematurely implicating the crew. Please desist, it's embarrassing

777fly

If this was a case of unlawful interference, someone obviously wanted this aircraft to disappear and/or ensure that there would be no survivors. Perhaps it would be worth checking who on board had taken out high or unusual life insurance.

syseng68k

Unixman:

Let's try an example: Assume that the satellite is directly above the equator, also that the a/c is north of the equator and flying south.

As the a/c approaches the equator, doppler effect will cause an increase in measured frequency of the return signal in relation to the transmitted as the a/c effectively becomes closer to the satellite. This drops to zero offset as the a/c passes under the equator. Past the equator, the frequency will decrease as the effective distance from the satellite increases.

You can only get a 1d point fix from one satellite, but a 2d fix may be possible with two, depending on available data...

hamster3null

Sun and moon gradually deform the orbit of a satellite in a geostationary orbit, causing it to "wobble" N/S daily unless the satellite spends fuel to correct. Most satellites do this periodically. If you look here List of satellites in geostationary orbit most satellites have "inclination" (wobble amplitude) of <=0.1 degrees. (If the satellite is left on its own, its inclination is going grow ~1 degree per year.) Fortunately for us, Inmarsat-3 F1 is an old satellite (launched in 1996 and the second oldest Inmarsat satellite in orbit), which means that it must be running out of fuel, which means that its owners are probably trying to conserve fuel and skipping N/S compensation maneuvers. It has inclination of 1.6 degrees.

The rest is correct.

albatross

I once had a passenger ELT activate accidentally.
((helicopter offshore ops) everybody has one plus the 2 on the helicopter, one jettisoned by impact or manually, plus the 2 in the rafts))
We could hear it but one of our helicopters less than 20 NM away could not.
I presume that the 777 fuselage is much "thicker" re radio emissions than a helicopter so perhaps an ELT activated within with no external antenna would not be picked up by SARSAT.

henra

It is hardly conceivable the door would be able to resist desperate and unhindered attempts of the Pax/CC to open it forcefully for 7 hours.
Crash axe and/or stuff from the galley or the cabin itself in the hands of multiple desperate People fighting for their lives would surely finally take its toll on the door and/or the floor.

It is therefore rather likely that at least in the latter phases of the flight no one in the cabin was conscious. Potentially in front of the door no one either.

What caused this is the big mystery for which we can only hope the CVR/FDR to be found and readable.

NWSRG

As a one time PPL and regular SLF, I have not posted up to now, as I have no authority to discuss the matters at hand. Some of the technical input from the professionals on the site has, however, been incredible...and testimony to their knowledge.

So I'm not about to begin speculation, rather ask one question, and pose another. Firstly, if they are recovered, will the on board recorders offer any useful data? I ask this as I understand (maybe wrongly) that they overwrite after some time.

Secondly, given that it has taken (at least publicly) two weeks for the authorities to locate MH370, is now the time to mandate real-time location transmission? Had this been available for MH370, the military could have intercepted the aircraft in the early stages of their deviation from flightplan...if not to prevent anything, at least to understand it.

Whatever happened, I hope the poor souls on board were unaware of their fate.

Lonewolf_50

The flight data recorder should provide much useful information.
The typical Cockpit voice recorder overwrites every 2 hours or so. (Last one I looked up was 2.5 hours)
Nothing confirmed has been found, in terms of floating debris. If such debris is confirmed, the actual hunt for the aircraft begins. That will take more time.
IMO, no. Other opinions will differ. Automobile designers are not required to design their cars for the cases of people who run them off of cliffs. I see no reason, given how many flights take off and land each day the world over by people using aircraft for their intended purpose, to make such a rule when a great deal of tech is already required and installed to keep track of where aircraft are and are going.
The military from what nation?