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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 15:28   #7521 (permalink)
 
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Excellent work Capt Kremin. Very nice graphic.

I think that many of us who fly the 777 for a living agree with you. The AP is going to follow a limited number of lateral inputs--LNAV, HDG HOLD, HDG SEL, TRK, or LOC. Plus, for LNAV we know that it is a three-step process of selecting the waypoint, executing it, and then selecting LNAV on the MCP. How many times have we had that drilled into us about "Execute then LNAV?"

At the very least, the initial turn off course and the entering and/or selection of new waypoints reveals very deliberate actions--by whom I will leave open pending further discovery and investigation. I think however, that many posters have overlooked just how deliberate those actions need to be and that they were most likely not the result of a happenstance case of hypoxia or fire brigade duties...
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 15:43   #7522 (permalink)
 
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ATC vanished? No

Quote:
Livesinafield The live ATC archive has vanished of their website, anyone else see this?
I found it here, live: LiveATC.net Worldwide Airport Coverage Map
and archives ATC Audio Archives | LiveATC.net

I've listened to most of the recordings for 3/7 and 3/8, and can't find that flight on Kuala Lumpar / WMKK ATC. Am I not looking in the right place or is it gone? I remember that the original news report said it "lost contact" with Subang (or Sepang?), so he took off under WMKK who passed him to that SZB and then contact was lost or? I couldn't find ATC for the "Sultan Abdul Aziz Shah Airport" aka SZB.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 15:43   #7523 (permalink)
 
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It does get tiring when we continually have to revise and dismiss the data that we thought we knew for certain. Agree with previous poster... only certainty is that a B777 is missing.

So now the previous data that the turn inputs into the FMS that supposedly happened before the final voice transmission may not have happened after all.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 15:48   #7524 (permalink)
 
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miscellaneous

Quote:
. According to the World Health Organization, the rate of suicide in Malaysia is close to the lowest on the planet; a tenth or so of rates in European countries.
But, is this due to Malaysia's measurement criteria? In a society where suicide is taboo (and not saying this applies), facts on the ground may be interpreted to uphold the norms. Durkheim spoke to this in his classic Suicide.

Quote:
The rate of suicide-by-loaded-aircraft amongst pilots is vanishingly low as well; statistically it's zero plus noise. Pilot suicide is a highly unlikely explanation for this incident. Unfortunately, so are all the other possible explanations.
The commercial aircraft accident rate is also vanishingly small, too, isn't it? What % of this rate is due to pilot suicide?

Quote:
As for the culture of suicide - I think the opposite... I think that in countries such as Malaysia etc, the pride and prestige of being an airline pilot is still very high compared to the western world where it seems to have been devalued...
Agree. But perhaps this introduces other issues. Malaysia is still a traditional society, wherein individuals reach various developmental milestones at an earlier age, as the West did years ago. So, one marries at 20, is a grandparent at 53. At the same time, individuals on certain career paths --whether young women working in MNC assembly plants, or pilots flying international routes-are exposed to Western values and lifestyles. This presents problems for the young women, who are sometimes 'ruined'. They may no longer fit in to the society within which they're trapped. Could this apply to pilots as well?

SIM cards...I was able to purchase a microSIM for my unlocked cell at an airport kiosk in KK recently, without showing any ID. I paid for it in ringgits. Only Mexico seems to strictly enforce an ID requirement.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 15:49   #7525 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
That doesn't answer the question as to whether or not they "automatically" go to standby while selecting a new code.
Yes, they do go into standby as soon as the code selector knobs or buttons are active. In the case of the keypad, it releases as soon as the 4th digit is entered, and the rotary has a 3-5 sec timeout.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 15:49   #7526 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
So now the previous data that the turn inputs into the FMS that supposedly happened before the final voice transmission may not have happened after all.
What difference would that make...? You can turn the jet WITHOUT inputs to the FMS.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 16:00   #7527 (permalink)
 
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It didn't crash into the South China Sea. The plane still had power at 8:11 when the last "ping" occurred. You can't make a connection with the Inmarsat satellite without having power. That is, unless you're postulating that the plane remained intact with power and then disappeared below the surface.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 16:03   #7528 (permalink)
 
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Capt Kremin,

excellent post. Probably the unpublished ping arcs fit quite exactly your 197 solution. Would that be the HDG to return from IGARI to KUL ??

That may be the reason why all SAR is concentrated south.

Tim Vasquez has something identified, that could be a contrail belonging to the HDG 197 solution. INHO a must read:

Investigation of a possible "southern arc" contrail from Malaysia Flight 370 - 8 March 2014 - Weather Graphics

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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 16:12   #7529 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
I've listened to most of the recordings for 3/7 and 3/8, and can't find that flight on Kuala Lumpar / WMKK ATC. Am I not looking in the right place or is it gone? I remember that the original news report said it "lost contact" with Subang (or Sepang?), so he took off under WMKK who passed him to that SZB and then contact was lost or? I couldn't find ATC for the "Sultan Abdul Aziz Shah Airport" aka SZB.
MH370 departed to the East. Live ATC only covers North & West Sectors.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 16:29   #7530 (permalink)
kwh
 
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Although if a country under the possible northern flight path had not wanted to say 'Our Air Defense Radar in that sector went u/s 3 months ago and we can't afford to repair it right now' then 'Our military radar didn't detect MH370' is an entirely accurate but also entirely useless answer...
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 16:45   #7531 (permalink)
 
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If MH370 wreckage found in Southern Indian ocean.....

Excellent post. A/P systems mode knowledge plus navigation basic principles create a very convincing case. Thank you.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 16:49   #7532 (permalink)
 
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oldoberon:-

Quote:
The fact that it was 370 was confirmed at a mid week conference by the minister based on a variety of data, so your sleepy byes argument is like most of your argument....
I disagree....the Chief of Air Force when asked by the media at that time, if the Air Force Radar Operator saw the air turn-back (i.e. in real-time), answered "No! We only saw a recording!"
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 16:51   #7533 (permalink)
 
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Any chance the INS would have become primary navigation means due to a loss of GPS? Flying ref ADIRU only?

Last edited by MarkJJ; 23rd Mar 2014 at 17:05.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 16:57   #7534 (permalink)
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French satellite debris

On French radio a spokeperson from the Sat company operating the satellite in question said that what they saw was a cluster of debris, but that included " a wooden pallet and some tighting ropes of different colors "...

If this is true , the international show will have to go on a little longer...

As to debating if a transponder go stand by automatically when changing squawks, what is the relevance ? It will not tell you if the aircraft is there , or in the North arc , or in the forest of an isolated island somewhere .
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 17:06   #7535 (permalink)
 
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Nose wheel fire???

unlikely..no nose wheel brakes... so very low probability for heating....why fire?
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 17:06   #7536 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
....an entirely accurate but also entirely useless answer...
Probably drafted by a room full of lawyers...
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 17:11   #7537 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
I've listened to most of the recordings for 3/7 and 3/8, and can't find that flight on Kuala Lumpar / WMKK ATC. Am I not looking in the right place or is it gone? I remember that the original news report said it "lost contact" with Subang (or Sepang?), so he took off under WMKK who passed him to that SZB and then contact was lost or? I couldn't find ATC for the "Sultan Abdul Aziz Shah Airport" aka SZB.
Scan through previous posts and you will find that the aircraft was on another frequency than the one archived.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 17:12   #7538 (permalink)
 
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INS... primary mode

@MarkJJ
Quote:
ny chance the INS would have become primary navigation means due to a loss of GPS? Flying ref ADIRU only?
No INS exists onboard... IRS exists... and incase GPS signals are shielded or unable for any reason... it will automatically revert to IRS as a primary source mode of navigation. but RNAV means of terrestrial aids such as VOR DME will be used to more accurately position fix.

Last edited by aviator1970; 23rd Mar 2014 at 17:14. Reason: Spellings
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 17:13   #7539 (permalink)
 
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Loss of power - steady stall

One question from an engineer, and to the aerodynamicists here:
If we assume the aircraft ran out of fuel, but was correctly trimmed in the final stages of the flight, the aircraft would stall from high altitude.
If we also assume that there were no crew inputs at this time of the flight, and because commercial airplanes are stable by design, I believe the aircraft would have started descending and entered some sort of small amplitude (due to stable design) phugoid mode at speeds close to Vs and kept in that kind of mode until reaching sea level.
What would be the aircraft attitude upon reaching sea level (order of magnitude of the pitch angle?)
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 17:18   #7540 (permalink)
 
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hamster3null replied:

Quote:
current search is based on the premise that the debris drifted substantially to the southeast in two weeks since the crash. They are searching way outside the arcs by now.
Yes, but many posts ago, the mechanism for excluding (western) parts of the 40 degree 00:11 UTC ping arch wasn't clear. With a big search going on this far east, MH370's previous (yet unknown) pings would appear a good reason why.

The speculation about piggybacking another flight to exit SE Asia for a sustained period of time can also be put to rest as the possible candidates flew on more westerly and therefore ping-incompatible headings.
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