Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost
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Mr DK
And why not Cockpit and cabin CCTV for a reasonable length of time - storage is cheap nowadays.
(Hope I am not modded out this time)
Agree that $10 and a phone is not a viable option.
SSD using NAND flash is being used in CVR's and which are many times more resistant to shock (G's), can be fully encapsulated (potted) to withstand great temperatures, be waterproof are not sensitive to pressure.
Besides, if worries, use the same enclosures as is currently used.
The only question is how much memory to stuff in the recorder, but I will venture that $1000 will give you many thousands of hours.
If the recorders of MH370 are found and it proves that only the last two hours of (possible) silence is available, when the first two hours of flight may be the most critical, then I hope the industry and regulatory agencies will recognize that improvements are in order.
SSD using NAND flash is being used in CVR's and which are many times more resistant to shock (G's), can be fully encapsulated (potted) to withstand great temperatures, be waterproof are not sensitive to pressure.
Besides, if worries, use the same enclosures as is currently used.
The only question is how much memory to stuff in the recorder, but I will venture that $1000 will give you many thousands of hours.
If the recorders of MH370 are found and it proves that only the last two hours of (possible) silence is available, when the first two hours of flight may be the most critical, then I hope the industry and regulatory agencies will recognize that improvements are in order.
(Hope I am not modded out this time)
Email Print 23 March 2014| last updated at 03:17PM
MISSING MH370: IGP denies Daily Mail report
By Atiqa Hazellah | [email protected]
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KUALA LUMPUR: Police have refuted an online version of a British tabloid report that MH 370 flight Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah had received a call from a mystery woman before take-off.
Inspector-General of Police Tan Sri Khalid Abu Bakar described the report as “mere speculation”.
He added that investigations were ongoing and confidential.
“If the portal can provide the caller’s number, that will help. If not, as I said, it is a mere speculation,” he said in a short messaging message (SMS) to the New Straits Times.
Khalid was responding to a Daily Mail report saying Zaharie had received a two-minute call before take-off from a mystery woman using a mobile phone number obtained under a false identity.
The call was said to be one of the last calls made to Zaharie in the hours before the Boeing 777-200 ER left Kuala Lumpur on March 8.
It also stated that police had traced the number to a shop selling prepaid SIM cards in Kuala Lumpur.
However, police discovered it had been bought recently by someone who used a false identity, the report said.
MISSING MH370: IGP denies Daily Mail report
By Atiqa Hazellah | [email protected]
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KUALA LUMPUR: Police have refuted an online version of a British tabloid report that MH 370 flight Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah had received a call from a mystery woman before take-off.
Inspector-General of Police Tan Sri Khalid Abu Bakar described the report as “mere speculation”.
He added that investigations were ongoing and confidential.
“If the portal can provide the caller’s number, that will help. If not, as I said, it is a mere speculation,” he said in a short messaging message (SMS) to the New Straits Times.
Khalid was responding to a Daily Mail report saying Zaharie had received a two-minute call before take-off from a mystery woman using a mobile phone number obtained under a false identity.
The call was said to be one of the last calls made to Zaharie in the hours before the Boeing 777-200 ER left Kuala Lumpur on March 8.
It also stated that police had traced the number to a shop selling prepaid SIM cards in Kuala Lumpur.
However, police discovered it had been bought recently by someone who used a false identity, the report said.
Not sure how much of the newspaper report has been debunked by police, the whole thing or just the part about the gender of the caller?
Did the pilot received a call from someone who used a fake ID to purchase the phone?
Is it a rare occurrence in that part of the world?
Mickjoebill
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In the U.S. if you express suicidal ideations, your professional flying career is probably over (unless you somehow make it an alcohol or gender identity issue). If you keep the thoughts to yourself, you keep flying.
"He flew nearly three more years, without incident, before he resigned in 1982 with severe obsessive-compulsive disorder, anxiety and depression."
In the U.S. if you express suicidal ideations, your professional flying career is probably over (unless you somehow make it an alcohol or gender identity issue). If you keep the thoughts to yourself, you keep flying.
A TV production company sought insurance for a joy flight in a glider of a young person who had a terminal illness.
The person had expressed interest in flying a glider like the birds and hope to imagine being free of his very painful condition.
Insurers said no, unacceptable risk, because he would have controls to hand.
To the credit of the pilot, the flight took place anyway
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Finally!...Something i can professionally comment about!!....
onetrack, while some people with depression do commit suicide, there is also impulsive suicide...that is, suicide that happens without the person necessarily showing signs of depression at all! Take the person who breaks up with his wife, then goes and hangs himself...Not depressed necessarily, rather an impulsive act due to circumstances.
Not everyone who is depressed commits suicide and not everyone who commits suicide is depressed!
onetrack, while some people with depression do commit suicide, there is also impulsive suicide...that is, suicide that happens without the person necessarily showing signs of depression at all! Take the person who breaks up with his wife, then goes and hangs himself...Not depressed necessarily, rather an impulsive act due to circumstances.
Not everyone who is depressed commits suicide and not everyone who commits suicide is depressed!
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Originally Posted by hamster3null
Or maybe there's no reflector at all, we just have a transmitter on the aircraft with its own clock that is used to timestamp the transmission, and we're making deductions based on the timestamp and the reception time. Then we also have to wonder how accurate the clock in the transmitter is.
Last edited by Seat 32F; 23rd Mar 2014 at 08:14. Reason: typo
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"...depressive bouts will be obvious to any adult with a modest degree of perception"
I think the "key" phrase there is "with a modest degree of perception".
And what happens when the "perception" goes out the window.
I think the "key" phrase there is "with a modest degree of perception".
And what happens when the "perception" goes out the window.
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onetrack: And once again, I re-state - you will show obvious signs of regular "clinical depression" if you have suicidal tendencies. You may be able to keep your suicidal thoughts to yourself (only in about 30% of reported cases) - but the severe depressive bouts will be obvious to any adult with a modest degree of perception.
Last edited by Coagie; 23rd Mar 2014 at 08:33. Reason: Added punctuation
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It shouldn't take more than a few lines of code and $10 worth of memory to change the box: my phone can record 200 hrs of speech!
Of course, none of this matters if someone on board disables it.
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World Health Organisation website
Every year, more than 800,000 people die from suicide; this roughly corresponds to one death every 40 seconds.
Suicide is among the three leading causes of death among those aged 15-44 years in some countries, and the second leading cause of death in the 10-24 years age group; these figures do not include suicide attempts which can be many times more frequent than suicide (10, 20, or more times according to some studies).
Suicide worldwide was estimated to represent 1.3% of the total global burden of disease in 2004.
Mental disorders (particularly depression and alcohol use disorders) are a major risk factor for suicide in Europe and North America;
(Please take note here!)
however, in Asian countries impulsiveness plays an important role. Suicide is complex with psychological, social, biological, cultural and environmental factors involved.
To totally deny the possibility of one of the pilots doing this, denies that they are human beings. If close family members or friends or workmates could see the total depression or anxiety of a suicidal person many of course would be stopped from doing it. But these people keep it secret to themselves and are successful at completing what they feel they must do for themselves.
Every year, more than 800,000 people die from suicide; this roughly corresponds to one death every 40 seconds.
Suicide is among the three leading causes of death among those aged 15-44 years in some countries, and the second leading cause of death in the 10-24 years age group; these figures do not include suicide attempts which can be many times more frequent than suicide (10, 20, or more times according to some studies).
Suicide worldwide was estimated to represent 1.3% of the total global burden of disease in 2004.
Mental disorders (particularly depression and alcohol use disorders) are a major risk factor for suicide in Europe and North America;
(Please take note here!)
however, in Asian countries impulsiveness plays an important role. Suicide is complex with psychological, social, biological, cultural and environmental factors involved.
To totally deny the possibility of one of the pilots doing this, denies that they are human beings. If close family members or friends or workmates could see the total depression or anxiety of a suicidal person many of course would be stopped from doing it. But these people keep it secret to themselves and are successful at completing what they feel they must do for themselves.
Last edited by b55; 23rd Mar 2014 at 08:32. Reason: Note highlight
Scruffy, why would the co-pilot just not open the cockpit door using the emergency access???
Graham321, why does being a pilot for a major airline prevent a person from having suicidal tendencies? Having been a commercial pilot in airlines for quite a number of years now I have had the unfortunate job of telling you that I have known / known of quite a few pilots and cabin crew who have taken their own lives. Thankfully none of them have done so at work but we all know of quite a few cases of apparent pilot/crew suicide or attempted suicide (egypt air / silk air / fed ex). The problem we have in our profession is people like you who put these unrealistic expectations on crew which drive the problem underground. Please read: Qantas allowed suicidal pilot to continue flying - Story - Business - 3 News
Now I don't know if this is a case of pilot suicide, but to rule it out just because pilots don't do that is stupid.
There is a lot of misconception out there around suicide, people who are about to kill themselves are not always depressed, in fact a recent study that I recently read said that often people appear to be happier than normal because they have made the decision to end it all and that is a load off their mind. People don't always do it in an obvious manner, the world is full of people who just disappear, making your aircraft disappear is actually quite a 'face saving' way of doing it as if the aircraft is never found or totally destroyed then suicide is very very hard to prove, this means you may not be labelled as someone who killed themselves and insurance etc. will still pay out.
Take this aircraft, if it is ever found and their are not faults found with it, we will find that the CVR is of little use as it may have only recorded the last 2 hours of silent flight deck, the FDR will be of little use as it will just show that someone flew the aircraft to its final destination (if that happened here). So what we are left with are 239 possible suspects.
Graham321, why does being a pilot for a major airline prevent a person from having suicidal tendencies? Having been a commercial pilot in airlines for quite a number of years now I have had the unfortunate job of telling you that I have known / known of quite a few pilots and cabin crew who have taken their own lives. Thankfully none of them have done so at work but we all know of quite a few cases of apparent pilot/crew suicide or attempted suicide (egypt air / silk air / fed ex). The problem we have in our profession is people like you who put these unrealistic expectations on crew which drive the problem underground. Please read: Qantas allowed suicidal pilot to continue flying - Story - Business - 3 News
Now I don't know if this is a case of pilot suicide, but to rule it out just because pilots don't do that is stupid.
There is a lot of misconception out there around suicide, people who are about to kill themselves are not always depressed, in fact a recent study that I recently read said that often people appear to be happier than normal because they have made the decision to end it all and that is a load off their mind. People don't always do it in an obvious manner, the world is full of people who just disappear, making your aircraft disappear is actually quite a 'face saving' way of doing it as if the aircraft is never found or totally destroyed then suicide is very very hard to prove, this means you may not be labelled as someone who killed themselves and insurance etc. will still pay out.
Take this aircraft, if it is ever found and their are not faults found with it, we will find that the CVR is of little use as it may have only recorded the last 2 hours of silent flight deck, the FDR will be of little use as it will just show that someone flew the aircraft to its final destination (if that happened here). So what we are left with are 239 possible suspects.
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Both Iridium and INMARSAT have been or are in the process of upgrading and in any case already have the bandwidth for ADS-C. The specification for ADS-C EPP "report containing the sequence of 1 to 128 waypoints or pseudo waypoints with associated constraints or estimates (altitude, time, speed, etc.), gross mass and estimate at Top of Descent, speed schedule, etc." are already agreed. Aircraft in oceanic airspace equipped with FANS 1/A already transmit ADS-C position reports over SATCOM every 10 minutes so could increase the frequency. Even if ICAO and the various national regulators take no action, the insurance companies involved may 'mandate' use of ADS-C if it reduces their losses.
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MrDK:
If that turns out to be the case, 2+ hours of silence would at least clarify that whatever happened on this a/c all took place near to the point of deviation from the FPL RTE.
The investigators will still have forensic science to answer a lot of other questions with enough accuracy to at least rule out or confirm whether the little green men were on board the aircraft the whole time.
If the recorders of MH370 are found and it proves that only the last two hours of (possible) silence is available, when the first two hours of flight may be the most critical, then I hope the industry and regulatory agencies will recognize that improvements are in order.
The investigators will still have forensic science to answer a lot of other questions with enough accuracy to at least rule out or confirm whether the little green men were on board the aircraft the whole time.
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Regarding the Search and Rescue, and having spent many hours doing Visual Searches for missing ships and the like, it is usual to find pallets and stuff like that on the high seas, things get carried by sea currents, and get scattered all over the ocean. Unusual stuff I have seen in the North Atlantic 100+ miles from the Azores include whole tree logs, containers, plastic crates, plastic boots, ropes, fishing nets (lots and lots), etc, etc
As I was watching the images of a ship in the Search Area yesterday on TV, the Search conditions were not good, quite heavy seas. As a P-3 Pilot said already, most of the times you catch an object by difference of contrast, because you are searching for a white greyish object, in a gray sea with withe/gray foam, under gray skies... You don't "see" it, your eye usually captures the different contrast and you then focus. Also, you get very tired very fast, after scanning for one hour you are mentally fatigued and your efficacy drops, we usually have the crew swap places in the cabin to "change gears".
Also, "good weather" may not be good for SAR, if you have sunlight reflection off the water, it gets difficult to spot objects "down sun", so according to sea state a cloud cover may actually help, although in their case I don't think they'll have a calm sea anytime...
As I was watching the images of a ship in the Search Area yesterday on TV, the Search conditions were not good, quite heavy seas. As a P-3 Pilot said already, most of the times you catch an object by difference of contrast, because you are searching for a white greyish object, in a gray sea with withe/gray foam, under gray skies... You don't "see" it, your eye usually captures the different contrast and you then focus. Also, you get very tired very fast, after scanning for one hour you are mentally fatigued and your efficacy drops, we usually have the crew swap places in the cabin to "change gears".
Also, "good weather" may not be good for SAR, if you have sunlight reflection off the water, it gets difficult to spot objects "down sun", so according to sea state a cloud cover may actually help, although in their case I don't think they'll have a calm sea anytime...
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(Please take note here!)
however, in Asian countries impulsiveness plays an important role. Suicide is complex with psychological, social, biological, cultural and environmental factors involved.
however, in Asian countries impulsiveness plays an important role. Suicide is complex with psychological, social, biological, cultural and environmental factors involved.
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Suicide mission of the pilot? I treat this as unlikely, because such an impulse reaction would not result in such perfect preparation as switching the XPDR at the perfect location, skip FPL at such moment, disable all communication systems, care for nobody touches the ELT button, disable the automatic ELT, etc etc etc. If he wanted to commit suicide, just lock the door and push nose down forward will give the wished result - why care about all the bells and whistles ringing in such action?
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Non of us are qualified to determine whether Captain Zaharie was suicidal or not, but from what we know about his devotion to aviation, I find it very difficult to believe that he would harm either his beloved plane or passengers if he wanted to end it all.
If he wanted to die doing what he loved, he would have hired a 172 on a day off and flown himself into the sea. In fact you know what? I don't even think he would have done that. He was so proud of his job and presumably his impeccable record that he probably would have found it difficult to 'blot' that record, even at the end.
And the co-pilot was on the point of proposing to his girlfriend, another Malaysian pilot.
I really do think pilot suicide comes way down the list of explanations of this mystery.
If he wanted to die doing what he loved, he would have hired a 172 on a day off and flown himself into the sea. In fact you know what? I don't even think he would have done that. He was so proud of his job and presumably his impeccable record that he probably would have found it difficult to 'blot' that record, even at the end.
And the co-pilot was on the point of proposing to his girlfriend, another Malaysian pilot.
I really do think pilot suicide comes way down the list of explanations of this mystery.
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Bandwidth
Some interesting posts over the past few days on having aircraft sendind more regular location updates and the impact of that on available satellite capacity.
In the maritime world the AIS (ships Automatic Identification System) transmits according to the rate of change of course. A ship stationary or travelling slowly will transmit its position much less often than one travelling faster. A ship changing course will transmit more often than one travelling in a straight line. For anyone not familiar with AIS 'marinetraffic' is worth googling.
I'm sure something similar could be implemented for aircraft to include the gaining or losing height as additional criteria for increased frequency of reporting
In the maritime world the AIS (ships Automatic Identification System) transmits according to the rate of change of course. A ship stationary or travelling slowly will transmit its position much less often than one travelling faster. A ship changing course will transmit more often than one travelling in a straight line. For anyone not familiar with AIS 'marinetraffic' is worth googling.
I'm sure something similar could be implemented for aircraft to include the gaining or losing height as additional criteria for increased frequency of reporting
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I may be wrong, but I think suicide may be somewhat acceptable in some Asian countries, at least, compared to some western countries.
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Clear_Prop
No it would not clarify much.
It would give timing and subsequent probabilities.
1. Incapacitated crew do not talk
2. A lone crew member will likely not talk
3. A lone hijacker will likely not talk
The only thing you may obtain are sounds that someone in the cockpit was alive along with warning signals from the plane.
If that turns out to be the case, 2+ hours of silence would at least clarify that whatever happened on this a/c all took place near to the point of deviation from the FPL RTE
It would give timing and subsequent probabilities.
1. Incapacitated crew do not talk
2. A lone crew member will likely not talk
3. A lone hijacker will likely not talk
The only thing you may obtain are sounds that someone in the cockpit was alive along with warning signals from the plane.