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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 22:53   #7341 (permalink)
 
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ettore

the fire/incapacitation theory does not allow for subsequent control inputs

read back over the aircrafts known route after initial diversion

how and where it crossed the peninsula and where/what direction it was going when last seen...
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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 22:54   #7342 (permalink)
 
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22m x 13m sounds a bit big for a piece of wreckage from an aircraft that supposedly impacted the ocean a couple of weeks ago. Red herring maybe?
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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 22:57   #7343 (permalink)
 
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Hi,

Quote:
Aviate, Navigate, Communicate
So .. if it was a real problem on this aircraft (no more possibility to "aviate and navigate") why not communicate ?
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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 23:01   #7344 (permalink)
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Quote:
I'll agree that the "pilots aren't the bad guys" scenarios require a catastrophe onboard that prevents communication.
What's your definition of a catastrophe? Can you discount a Stanley knife (or a couple on non metallic garrottes that could have been brought on board disguised as bloody show laces!!) wielded by intruders who managed to get into the cockpit? Either of those would "prevent communication".

I cannot understand how eager so many people are to lay the blame for this tragedy on the pilots.
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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 23:03   #7345 (permalink)
 
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Debris Spotted

Debris spotted in search area | Sky News Australia
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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 23:10   #7346 (permalink)
 
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Found this quite useful.
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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 23:10   #7347 (permalink)
 
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I've followed this thread from day one, initially I was of the opinion that it was a similar scenario to AF447 ie tech problem that overcame the pilots.


At this stage it would seem to me that the most likely scenario is that based on the assumption that the Inmarsat arcs are valid, this aircraft was flown to its final destination in the sea by someone.


The fire theory doesn't stack up, if it incapacitated the pilots so quickly it would most likely brought the aircraft down sooner than several hours later.


The location of the current search focus and the route that would have to have been flown to get there more or less undetected back up my
theory that someone was flying this machine.


Can anyone explain how it could have gone where it 'seems' to have gone otherwise?


A truly awful event whatever the reasons
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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 23:17   #7348 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
DEBRIS including a wooden pallet has been spotted by one of the aircraft searching for missing flight MH370, Prime Minister Tony Abbott has revealed.

Mr Abbott said he was told late last night a civilian aircraft had sighted a number of objects within the search zone.

It is the first direct sighting of debris and follows two hits by satellite in the past week.

“Yesterday one of our civilian search aircraft got visuals on a number of objects in a fairly small area in the overall Australian search zone,” Mr Abbott said this morning.

He said the debris was: “ A number of small objects, fairly close together within the Australian search zone, including a wooden pallet.”
Missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370: Search resumes after Chinese satellites spot object in Indian Ocean | News.com.au
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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 23:19   #7349 (permalink)
 
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I mentioned a few pages back that during last nights press conference they said the atc transcript that is going around is false, this is to follow up on that post.

Quote:
SEPANG: The communication transcript that allegedly took place between the missing Malaysia Airlines (MAS) MH370 and air traffic control (ATC) the night it was reported missing on March 8 has been classified as inaccurate and "tidak sahih" (invalid).
"The transcript is invalid and inaccurate. I have to inform that the transcript between the tower and the aircraft is not accurate," stressed the Department of Civil Aviation Director-General Datuk Azharuddin Abdul Rahman.

He rebutted the transcript which was published today by a foreign media 'The Telegraph' during the daily media briefing on the search and rescue operation for the unfortunate aircraft that entered day-15, at a hotel here, today.

Also present were Acting Transport Minister Datuk Seri Hishammuddin Hussein and MAS Chief Executive Officer Ahmad Jauhari Yahya.

When asked to explain further which part of the transcript was not accurate, Azharuddin refused to comment, adding that: "The transcript by standard procedure cannot be publicly released."

The Telegraph in its exclusive report entitled 'Revealed: the final 54 minutes of communication from MH370' published the cockpit communication from its taxi on the runway to its final message at 1.19am of 'all right, good
night'.

The transcript allegedly between the co-pilot Fariq Abdul Hamid and ATC started at 00.25 with general instructions from the control tower to the pilots.

The detailed conversation began at 00.36.

Earlier Hishammuddin said that the original transcript of the conversation between MH370 and ATC had been handed to the investigation team, where it was being analysed.

"As a standard practice in investigation of this sort, the transcript cannot be publicly released at this stage. I can however confirm that the transcript does not indicate anything abnormal," he said.

The issue on the lithium-ion battery which was carried in the cargo area of the aircraft MH370 was again raised by the media today, but Ahmad Jauhari had explained in detail on the matter at the media conference yesterday, besides issuing an official statement.

"The battery as cargo is not dangerous. Actually it (the battery) is not dangerous as long as it is handled according to the guidelines specified by the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) and the International Air Transport Association (IATA)," he said.

MAS Flight MH370, carrying 227 passengers and 12 crew, went missing en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing about an hour after taking off from the KL International Airport at 12.41 am on March 8. It should have landed in Beijing at 6.30 am on the same day.

The fate of the passengers is unknown as the multi-national search for the aircraft has drawn a blank so far.
UPDATE 29: MISSING MH370: Reported transcript inaccurate, says DCA - Latest - New Straits Times

Latest Media Release From AMSA
Quote:
During Saturday’s search activities a civil aircraft tasked by AMSA reported sighting a number of small
objects with the naked eye, including a wooden pallet, within a radius of five kilometres.

A Royal New Zealand Air Force (RNZAF) P3 Orion aircraft with specialist electro-optic observation
equipment was diverted to the location, arriving after the first aircraft left but only reported sighting
clumps of seaweed.

The RNZAF Orion dropped a datum marker buoy to track the movement of the material. A merchant
ship in the area has been tasked to relocate and seek to identify the material.

The search area experienced good weather conditions on Saturday with visibility of around 10 kilometres
and moderate seas.

The Royal Australian Air Force, the Royal New Zealand Air Force, two chartered civil aircraft and two
merchant ships supported Saturday’s search effort in a 36,000 square kilometre search area in the
Australian Search and Rescue Region.

Since AMSA assumed coordination of the search on Monday 17 March, 15 sorties have been flown and
more than 150 hours of air time has been committed by the air crews to the task.

Four military aircraft assisted in today’s search, as well as two ultra-long range jets. Ten State
Emergency Service (SES) volunteers from Western Australia were tasked as air observers today, along
with two AMSA mission coordinators on the civilian aircraft. AMSA runs a training program across the
country to train SES volunteers in air observation for land and sea searches.

The Royal Australian Navy’s HMAS Success has arrived in the search area. Two merchant ships are
also in the search area.

The search will resume tomorrow and further attempts will be made to establish whether the objects
sighted are related to MH370.

This evening China provided a satellite image to Australia possibly showing a 22.5 metre floating object
in the southern Indian Ocean. AMSA has plotted the position and it falls within Saturday’s search area.
The object was not sighted on Saturday.

AMSA will take this information into account in tomorrow’s search plans.
https://www.amsa.gov.au/media/docume...ate10MH370.pdf
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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 23:19   #7350 (permalink)
 
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AMSA has the same on it's media release this morning

http://www.amsa.gov.au/media/documen...ate10MH370.pdf

Quote:
During Saturday’s search activities a civil aircraft tasked by AMSA reported sighting a number of small objects with the naked eye, including a wooden pallet, within a radius of five kilometres.

A Royal New Zealand Air Force (RNZAF) P3 Orion aircraft with specialist electro-optic observation equipment was diverted to the location, arriving after the first aircraft left but only reported sighting clumps of seaweed.

The RNZAF Orion dropped a datum marker buoy to track the movement of the material. A merchant ship in the area has been tasked to relocate and seek to identify the material.
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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 23:39   #7351 (permalink)
 
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"the search effort has been hampered by the reluctance of all parties in the region admit to what they have actually seen on radar."

To state the obvious, various countries in that part of the world don't want to admit that:

(a) the radars may not be operating all the time.

(b) they may have missed something even when the radars were operating.

For example, India was forced to admit that its radars around the Adaman Islands were not actually on all the time in order to save money.
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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 23:42   #7352 (permalink)
 
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"Apart from hypoxia, are there any other scenarios that would account for the crew and passengers being incapacitated AND the plane being able to fly for another 5-7 hours?"

rabidstoat: "Surely there are. Off the top of my head, hijacker(s) with threat or use of force."


What I meant was: are there any other scenarios apart from hypoxia that don't involve foul play of some type. I'm struggling to think of any.
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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 23:50   #7353 (permalink)
 
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There is no way you will have network coverage on your phone at 35.000 ft

Still for me there are to many coincidences that and chain of events must have been really overwhelming, that the failures caused the aircraft to become invisible and silent, at the most convenient moment of the flight!

I do not believe the pilots are at blame, maybe it is a combination of unknown factors, as I can't see how a modern T7 could suffer such a failure - in that case it will be a latent failure, also existing on other T7's, and there will be no rest by the authorities and Boeing until something has been found!

There is no way with current available information to put together any even remotely satisfactory chain of events that can explain what happen, based on the facts that we are aware of at this moment.

I do believe some more information is known, and I also believe at the moment we can't even be certain of the current search area being the correct one.

All this uber-info about Pings and Arcs and various explanations means very little, as we have not been presented with all the data required to make such analyses.
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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 23:53   #7354 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyJS View Post
[I]"Apart from hypoxia, are there any other scenarios that would account for the crew and passengers being incapacitated AND the plane being able to fly for another 5-7 hours?"

What I meant was: are there any other scenarios apart from hypoxia that don't involve foul play of some type. I'm struggling to think of any.
Noxious gas, from somewhere as yet unknown ?
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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 23:53   #7355 (permalink)
 
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The recent inflight arson attempt on the EY flight from MEL-AUH?

A similar attempt here with a different outcome?
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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 23:54   #7356 (permalink)
 
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Assuming Malaysian have an FOQA program couldn't they pull the QAR from previous flights the crew took (what is the history of the QAR?) and analyse any anomalies?
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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 23:54   #7357 (permalink)
 
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I have been looking at as many relevant maps as I can find and one thing has me interested....MH370 went "missing" from primary radar 1hr34min into the flight...If we then assume that it continued to go north-west for lets say 30+ minutes, so as to avoid turning back South over Indonesia (whom denies they tracked it on primary radar), then that is 2hrs of flying time gone out of the 7.3 it was allegedly flying for. That leaves it in the air for 5hrs30mins. If you then calculated a speed of 800kmh, the flying distance would be around 4500km. Looking at one map, the distance from Sultan Iskandarmuda Airport (Banda Aceh, ID) to Perth is 4700km....So how could the plane have ended up 1500-2500km south of Perth....
I may be looking at this all wrong
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 00:00   #7358 (permalink)
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Quote:
Apart from hypoxia, are there any other scenarios that would account for the crew and passengers being incapacitated AND the plane being able to fly for another 5-7 hours
All the scenarios at this point are just conjecture. If we look at AF447 for example, it was brought down by something we hadn't accounted for prior to the accident, this may very well be the same. All of the "it must have had human intervention" speculation, is based on absolutely no evidence, or at the very least unsubstantiated evidence. For the most part the investigating authorities cannot even get their story straight.

I can understand countries not wanting to give away classified information, but if there was one shred of evidence that the aircraft followed the Northern route, I am fairly sure it would be provided to the investigators (if not the source).

I don't suspect Australia, New Zealand, China and the US are conducting such a massive search on just a hunch, or even just based on the Immarsat 'pings' for that matter. Whether the information has come from JORN, or US and Chinese satellites we will probably never know, nor do we need to.

I cannot believe the number of so called 'aviation experts' on television pushing their outlandish theories. Time to hand back your ATPL's guys!
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 00:01   #7359 (permalink)
 
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Decompressing fire fighters

For all the genius so called pilots out there referring to the SOP's of fighting on board fires by decompressing or climbing heavy triple 7's to FL450 to starve them of oxygen.....

They have obviously drifted too far from the classrooms of their youth where they learned that the atmosphere consists of 21% oxygen ALL THE WAY UP!

Decompressing or climbing to FL680 will provide the fire with 21% of oxygen.

You guys should be checking out a career with CNN or the BBC
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 00:12   #7360 (permalink)
 
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wild goose, the percentage of oxygen remains the same, what changes is the density which, putting it simply means that the molecules of oxygen are too far apart to allow effective respiration. If this were not the case there would be no need for people to have oxygen supplementation.
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