Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost
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MODIS images 8th March
It seems from today's posts that some people still doubt the scenario leading to the search area. I agree with some of the comments about 'why perform such an elusive flight path to ultimately ditch in the ocean?'. Also the assumed path after loss of contact with civilian ATC appears to be based on military primary radar tracks with no secondary radar identification. I've gone back to the start of this mystery and looked at MODIS images for the area. On 8th March there were some fires and smoke visible NE of Quang Khe in Vietnam - which very close to the planned flight path and also on the same radial from the communications satellite as the published 'arcs' (but in the area between the N & S arcs, if extrapolated). The fires were not apparent on the 6th March, probably not there on 7th (although SCT/BKN CU over the area), visible on 8th but not there on 9th (although perhaps one faint area surviving). Just possibly MH370 if control was lost soon after the last contact with ATC? The MODIS image can be found at Rapid Response - LANCE - Subsets (MODIS Aqua bands 7-2-1 at 250m resolution) and the area of interest on 8th March is close to the right edge of the image about 2/3 of the way down. Apologies if this idea has already been explored but I though it perhaps worth adding to this thread as another possibility.
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The clearly stated they exist.
everything 100% agree with your reply
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Releasing INMARSAT ping data
oldoberon
I guess they will not release the other ping data. The arcs from the last ping made the public point that MH370 wasn't in the South China Sea. After that there is no up-side to releasing more data - it will just spawn loads of duff amateur analysis (including my own) that doesn't help them in any way.
up until AMSA the reports of more pings were wsj, a us official, although volcnicash in his post on the 16th said the briefer has confirmed it, I have watched that but it is not in his "speech" so i am assuming it was a question/answer
However the AMSA guy stated there were 6 more pings which have been analysed
However the AMSA guy stated there were 6 more pings which have been analysed
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The term 'The Cloud' really means remote storage somewhere. For air safety this could be NTSB or AAIB servers or wherever. The main point being that it is not on or part of the device doing the recording of the data. So instead of the aircraft recording to a device secreted somewhere in the aircraft that then has to be found and decoded if it survived, the data is immediately available for decoding if there is an emergency. Allowing SAR and investigation to start immediately after an incident. By putting the storage in the NTSB (or similar) it should allay the concerns that some pilots have of management misusing the data.
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Can't see what PPMAGENTO posted but Washington Post has 4 rings - but they could be back-calculated?
Objects sighted may be linked to Flight MH370 - The Washington Post
Objects sighted may be linked to Flight MH370 - The Washington Post
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A Van
The pings establish a link for the data stream - ACARS.
With all that mentioned, it looks outrageous that aircraft carrying hundreds of passengers just sends trivial pings every hour, and these ping data are even not easy to find and analyze.
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In a normal flight, it would have been sending ADS and other data on a periodic basis (or when the status changed), reporting position and other information.
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Even if intact, the wing tanks have vents, and I would expect them to be filled with water after this length of time.
IIRC, the overflow vents are fitted with one-way valves. Course, that assumes empty airtight tank flooding through the vents rather than any of the other possible ingress avenues (fuel quantity sensor holes, fill caps, broken fuel lines as it detached from the engine and hull, et al....)
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The only issue remaining is how to ensure constant connection with the cloud during the important failing/crashing/screwing-up bits.
A live satellite data link would be of some use on non-polar routes, but when things went wrong enough to care about what was being recorded, could that link be assured to still be working?
A live satellite data link would be of some use on non-polar routes, but when things went wrong enough to care about what was being recorded, could that link be assured to still be working?
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INMARSAT
I suspect that the Inmarsat 'ping' data was a victim of the backlash against the flood of unreliable information coming from the Malaysian authorities. At the time it was first offered, the authorities were under considerable criticism for releasing information one day then retracting it the next. So the first information of any significance was treated with kid gloves.
(a) they are surprised that the search continued in the S China Sea after last Wednesday, 8 days ago, when they sent the satellite data to Malaysia, as the pings clearly pointed to the two well-known arcs we've seen as the likely location of MAS370
(b) they can't understand why the concentration on two corridors following the two arcs because in their view the aircraft was at one end or the other, not somewhere along the arc, "according to the laws of physics", and most likely to be south as the northern route would have likely been picked up by radar as it crossed several countries.
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oldoberon
I guess they will not release the other ping data. The arcs from the last ping made the public point that MH370 wasn't in the South China Sea. After that there is no up-side to releasing more data - it will just spawn loads of duff amateur analysis (including my own) that doesn't help them in any way.
I guess they will not release the other ping data. The arcs from the last ping made the public point that MH370 wasn't in the South China Sea. After that there is no up-side to releasing more data - it will just spawn loads of duff amateur analysis (including my own) that doesn't help them in any way.
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For air safety this could be NTSB or AAIB servers or wherever. ..... By putting the storage in the NTSB (or similar) it should allay the concerns that some pilots have of management misusing the data.
Take ACARS as an example. A long standing system that (for me) only uses VHF in central Europe. Breaks / fails often, sometimes intermittently, sometimes for rest of flight.
These systems are not designed for safety, are "nice to haves" commercially, and some airlines just do not use them for cost reasons. it is a massive step to elevate them to "flight safety" / "No Despatch MEL items".
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imagery
The sat image is multispectral and can be used to discriminate various "spectral signatures". Depending on which sat this came from it would have 1.8-2.4m resolution in multispectral and 50-60 cm in panchromatic.
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fg32
Many on here, myself, oldoberon, PontiusNavigator, have been saying this is something that can and has been done.
We know the pings exist, we know that Inmarsat/SITA provided a map like this, but less refined as early as the 10th. If you say we do not have it, then the only way you can tell us that PPMAGENTO's map is wrong is if YOU have the data and hence know those are (bad) guesses.
The last bit of the tracks also appear on the Australian presentation at the press conference, marked as provided by NTSB. So, do you have the data? I see you are London based, as is Inmarsat, if you know for a FACT it is wrong, then say so.
And they are NOT as marked on PPMAGENTO's map. Those are guesses.
We know the pings exist, we know that Inmarsat/SITA provided a map like this, but less refined as early as the 10th. If you say we do not have it, then the only way you can tell us that PPMAGENTO's map is wrong is if YOU have the data and hence know those are (bad) guesses.
The last bit of the tracks also appear on the Australian presentation at the press conference, marked as provided by NTSB. So, do you have the data? I see you are London based, as is Inmarsat, if you know for a FACT it is wrong, then say so.
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I can understand Inmarsat's point of view about "following the lines", since
they did go to the trouble of ended the arcs at a reasonable point that is about a range-of-the-aircraft distant from the departure point, noting that a call at 0911 just didn't happen.
they did go to the trouble of ended the arcs at a reasonable point that is about a range-of-the-aircraft distant from the departure point, noting that a call at 0911 just didn't happen.
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I would assume one-way valves are there to keep the fuel from venting overboard. There must also be vents that allow air into the tank as fuel is consumed.
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the data is immediately available for decoding if there is an emergency. Allowing SAR and investigation to start immediately after an incident. By putting the storage in the NTSB (or similar) it should allay the concerns that some pilots have of management misusing the data.
FDR and CVR boxes were historically provided to provide evidence for crash investigations after an accident, not an attack on the aircraft. Clearly the latter scenario requires protection of the equipment in ways not previously envisaged. As others have said, the pitiful voice storage time really needs addressing too! It needs to be at least greater than the endurance of the aircraft with a full fuel load.
This subject is probably best shifted to Tech Log as not really relevant to the current situation.
Last edited by JamesCam; 20th Mar 2014 at 17:46. Reason: typo
