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Old 15th Mar 2014, 14:15   #3941 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Exclamation Fuel

Considering that so many people on here claim to be professionals, I am astounded that nobody has looked into the technical side of how much fuel was actually on-board for this rather short flight.
  • MAS370 got airborne at 1643z
  • LKP according to Radar/Mode S transponder was 1722z
  • Flight time was ZBAA0521 - 5 hours 21 minutes
  • When it went missing it had fuel reportedly for a further 7 hours 30 minutes.
  • 39 minutes of TRIP fuel was burned to that point and presumably 10-15 minutes APU/TAXI.

So the big question that now remains, why was there an uplift of just over 8 hours for a 5 hours 21 minute flight. Planning within standards would suggests maybe just over 6 and 1/2 hours fuel. If this is the case then how comes the captain signed off and additional 1 hour 30 minutes fuel or more (that is public knowledge)

I've not suggested that the captain has anything to do with this, but all that extra fuel for a flight that isn't going very far has more questions than answers. After all, any additional uplift is his final decision.
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 14:16   #3942 (permalink)
 
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In-flight wifi is fairly easy to control. I won't say how but in most cases the pax just think it's a service outage, not that it's been switched off. There is more than one way to control it but like many things, the flight deck usually have some ability to control this.
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 14:21   #3943 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vee1-rotate View Post
So how has ACARS been disabled and the crew are carrying on as normal until TOC ? Unless someone was in the equipment bay.
I would consider this a valid question.

But since as of late it seems to be mostly Holywood time in here (got much worse since Official confirmation pointing also towards Intererence), such detail probably doesn't matter.

Let's simply cross fingers someone finds this Needle in the apparently huge Haystack.
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 14:22   #3944 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
but is there any merit in looking for contrails in satellite imagery or even (massive undertaking) ground based pictures?
In response to Tristan Gooley's post No. 3463, the Appleman Chart gives the answer although the vertical axis is in pressure rather than feet (I've marked 26,000 feet & -40ºC):



In rough terms, OAT needs to be -40ºC or colder for formation, and contrails will rarely be found below 26,000' (8km). So depending on the humidity, a contrail could have been formed that Sunday morning – although whether one could have been seen at night is open to question (but it was reportedly cloudless with a moon!), but then "which one"?

NASA's website is informative:
Contrail Education - Science

Last edited by Lorimer; 15th Mar 2014 at 16:58. Reason: Clarification
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 14:30   #3945 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
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Re: Fuel

Quote:
So the big question that now remains, why was there an uplift of just over 8 hours for a 5 hours 21 minute flight.
Could they be uplifting cheaper Malaysian (state subsidised?) fuel to cover some of the return or onward leg?
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 14:31   #3946 (permalink)
 
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Inmarsat tracking

@snowfalcon2
@TelcoAUS

About the nearest anyone on here has got to what is actually happening involving the analysis of the Inmarsat received data is snowfalcon2 at post #3850.

With TelcoAUS not far behind.

IMO, the track/positioning deductions will become more accurate during the next hours.
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 14:32   #3947 (permalink)
 
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Captains facebook page.

Translation (rough) of some of the Captains facebook page. .........

https://www.facebook.com/zaharie.shah.3


right terror anwar ne. !

Politics of fear.. This is what it’s boiled down to… Questioning the qualification of the individuals who dare to standup. (Anuar or Hadi .) These are our only hope to restore democracy. 50 years in power by a single party (coalition) does not say much about democracy in the country. If these leaders willing to stand in the line of fire the least we could do is support them. They might not be perceived to be the best candidate but sacrifice is necessary to achieve the goal of free democracy. When you renovate a house you have to suffer all the consequences. From dust, to the contractor that run off with the money, Aliens workers keeping an eyes on your family. WHY DO YOU RISK THAT? Because at the end after all the loss of extra ringgit for overprice items the contractor billed you and you elude the alien predators from robbing your house and harming your family you know it will be worthwhile.

Asalamualaikum
Today is my last post on FB. The vote is with bijaksana.Kesejahteraan
the future of our children depends on the decision
you do tomorrow.
I count as a watchdog that will Ballot Box P107
opened the next day at the Office of Government Chinatown.
I gather 10 fingers apologize if there terkasar language.
I am a common man can not escape from errors.

In place of the votes in a government office petaling. Kul 5 new start counting. Sorry no pictures allowed.
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 14:38   #3948 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Mobile Phone Usage and Absence of Calls

We seem to be generally agreed that voice calls can be made below 8000 feet and texts sent or received at anything up to 35,000 feet.

Given that MH370 did not have a limitless supply of fuel, at some point it must have descended through 8000 feet at which point crew or passengers would have been able to make calls or send texts. The latest inmarsat information puts the extremes of possible range either over Khazakstan to the north or the Pacific Ocean west of Oz to the South. If it flew north, by the time it started descending, the flight time would be over that expected by most passengers and you would expect a rush of concerned mobile phone calls or texts on the morning of Saturday 8th. At least some of these attempts are likely to have made it to a cell somewhere on the ground.

Even if the cell data was being withheld, at least one friend or relative of those on board would have reported the contact by now. Which makes me think that either the plane flew south and ditched in the sea or if it did fly north, the crew and passengers were either dead or unconscious due to 5+ hours in the death zone.

Just a thought
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 14:44   #3949 (permalink)
 
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A map showing primary radar coverage would be interesting, particularly with intersections with the Inmarsat reception arcs.
It is a reasonable assumption that many records are now being scrutinised.

What is also interesting is the availability of such coverage maps to a interested pilot or non-military party.
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 14:45   #3950 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Even if the cell data was being withheld, at least one friend or relative of those on board would have reported the contact by now. Which makes me think that either the plane flew south and ditched in the sea or if it did fly north, the crew and passengers were either dead or unconscious due to 5+ hours in the death zone.
Agree. This. Plus, as has been explained a million times already, the ringback tone is NOT generated by the phone handset, but by the network, and there are a million reasons why you may hear ringing and yet the handset might never ring (or be turned off/ broken).

I think we need to treat the mobile phone stuff as yet another random conspiracy theory until such time as HARD FACTS show otherwise.....
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 14:48   #3951 (permalink)
 
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Posts: 16
Facebook posts

Even more.... seems he hates Barisan National.... and is backing Anwar.... who just got indicted for Sodomy again.........

Revenge ?

From Capt FB

- Wikipedia reported Dr M is the second richest among retired leaders in the world, after Hosni Mubarak of Egypt. His wealth is estimated to be USD 44 billion (RM 160 billion) .Should we allow him to plunder our country's wealth? If PAKATAN is voted in on May 5 this wealth can be frozen & returned to the rakyat. As long as BN is in power, no one can touch him. Ubah lah !! Forward to at least 10 people

Apparently Putra Jaya issued an order that wef fm Monday, all staff not allowed OT and only authorized staff r allowed into PM department !!!!
They saw the revolt at the Putra jaya's ceramah !!
Clearly pmo are cleaning shits in the office before handover. Sign of bn preparing defeat.
This is an urgent appeal for support. Pakatan Rakyat needs everybody to bring the messages of truth down to the grassroots level. There are many people who have not received the messages from Pakatan Rakyat. Many have not been able to attend the Pakatan Ceremahs. Please help to send all message that you receive to at least 10 persons. The more people we can reach out to the whole country the better. We need to reach out to the 7th level. We need to reach out to 1 million people very fast. Time is very limited. Please help. Thank you.
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 14:49   #3952 (permalink)
 
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While a lone actor might decide to end it all, there's some difficulty in persuading a larger group to go with the plan.

But there is the door and a distinct lack of tools in back to get through it. The Ethiopian pilot was unmolested during his unauthorised diversion.

Methinks there's going to be openings for jumpseaters who can both land the plane if necessary and take care of those with ideas to divert the aircraft.

Cue wails from the beancounters.
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 14:59   #3953 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awblain View Post
These reports of looking in Turkmenistan AND northern Thailand are surely misrepresentations, unless the news editors' atlases were just open at T in the index. Turkmenistan is as far from KL as Beijing is, but a long long way from northern Thailand.

The intention of the press statement was presumably to say that there's the possibility of looking along a track from Turkmenistan to Thailand - since it presumably wasn't seen by either Chinese or Indian radars.
I'm going to infer, from the press conference remarks, that the last satellite point was somewhere 40-deg north or south. That they took a map of that part of the world, drew an arc from the last know primary skin paint, out to the range of fuel, then looked to see where 40 north or south would intersect that arc. I suspect that they also took note of potential routes, and who had PSR that might have seen it pass. As the a/c was flying east to west, it would have been moving in the same direction as sunrise, so it could have been in darkness the entire trip.

Would you send a fighter up to investigate a radar blip, in the dark, in mountainous terrain ?

As for the south corridor, there are a few islands out there ... including DG (already mentioned several times). If the a/c had made it to DG, I think most governments would already have been notified. But DG, as a destination, violates the 40-deg north/south, so I doubt that was the target.

Most perplexing.
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 15:01   #3954 (permalink)
 
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Fake facebook posts

Before people get too carried with stuff from facebook, creating fake facebook accounts is a national sport in some parts of the world.
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 15:01   #3955 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Methinks there's going to be openings for jumpseaters who can both land the plane if necessary and take care of those with ideas to divert the aircraft.
Which will accomplish what exactly? If we can't trust two people how can we trust 3?

What this boils down to is that if the flight crew are involved in this, which I refuse to believe until I see unrefutable proof, then the world of the international airline pilot will yet once again change beyond recognition. With todays CYA policy, the scream for action which is certain to follow, with now several publicized cases to stand in such a process, we may see a further erosion of the respect and trust those in power will have for air crew.

It would show to one extent however that the flight deck door rules and the daily beep beep touch touch checks have amounted to just about nothing, but have in opposite possibly caused at least one aircraft to be beyond rescue when that aircrafts captain decided to end it all a few months back. All the horrified FO could do is bang his hands at the door.

Frankly, todays press conference has shook me to the core of my own inner beliefs in whom to trust and whom not. I still am in denial that any crew could do something like that, so in a way I hope there will be ANY other explanation than that one. We can fix planes, we can increase security but to repair trust is something which is as unlikely as the whole mess we find ourselfs in right now.
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 15:05   #3956 (permalink)
 
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These FB posts are from nearly a year ago. Nothing political recently that I can see.
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 15:07   #3957 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Yes agreed. I said before we need to know 2 things more:--

1/ Fuel on board at departure, this will be known by MH
2/ Cargo manifest, what were they carrying?
I will add one more thing to your list:

3/ Crews roster for last month, what was crew doing?

Quote:
And one more addition: was there any crew rostering request with regards to this flight?
Agree.. in short it boils down to:
  • Fuel
  • Cargo
  • Crew
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 15:07   #3958 (permalink)
 
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Location: Planet Earth
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In answer to one of your questions, LHR, the FOB at KUL. Possibly tankering fuel.......for the return trip.
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 15:08   #3959 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
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Australia still waiting for a request to review radar?

Reported today (15th March):
No Cookies | Perth Now

AMSA says no reliable information about report MH370 tracked to ocean off Australia

THE Australian Maritime Safety Authority (AMSA) said it had no reliable information to indicate Malaysian Airlines flight MH370 may have approached Australia.

AMSA was responding to a single report today that the last satellite transmission from the missing jet was traced to the Indian Ocean off Australia.

Quoting an anonymous person familiar with the information, Bloomberg reported a path from Malaysia to waters off Australia would have taken as much as 3000 miles.

This is about the maximum distance the Boeing 777-200 could have flown with its fuel load, the news agency reported.

“MH370 may have flown beyond its last known position, about 1000 miles west of Perth, and that location may not be an indication of where the plane ended up,” the report states.

A search in Australian waters would be in the jurisdiction of AMSA.

A spokesman said: “AMSA has not received reliable information indicating that Malaysian Airlines’ flight MH370 may have approached Australia or entered the Australian search and rescue region.

“Should verified information or request for assistance be passed to AMSA from authorities coordinating the search for flight MH370, it will be assessed on its merits.

“Australia is assisting the search efforts with two Royal Australian Air Force P-3 Orion maritime patrol aircraft deployed to the region.

“The Bloomberg report will be passed to coordinating authorities for their assessment in the context of all of the other information they have available to them.”
---------------------------

interesting quote:
“Should verified information or request for assistance be passed to AMSA from authorities coordinating the search for flight MH370, it will be assessed on its merits.

So... Australia hasn't reviewed its primary radar data etc yet for any sign of MH370... Considering the IMARSAT data now available re the possible location west of Perth, I think this should have already been checked.
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 15:11   #3960 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Reports say that MH370's last ACARS pings were received by Inmarsat.

If it's a fact that the pings were received by Inmarsat only, and not by ACARS ground stations, couldn't you deduce that MH370 was not in range of an ACARS ground station when it sent its last pings?
  • ACARS is data source.
  • There are different transports media, which could be used to transport ACARS data. (SATCOM, HF, VHF)
  • No ACARS data were received as ACARS was probably switched off.
  • Only SATCOM transport protocol 'pings' were received, as SATOM was not switched off, but did not received any data from ACARS to be sent.
  • Other ACARS transports systems like HF and VHF were probably switched off.
  • HF an VHF transports do not probably send any 'pings' as these are not needed for given transport layer. (I would expect, that these SATCOM ping are mainly to sync TDMA channel slot time and no such action is needed for HF or VHF)
So such correlation as you suggest is probably not useful.
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