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Old 15th Mar 2014, 13:27   #3921 (permalink)
 
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That's not the case. It seems that the aircraft did not send position reports as previously thought. INMARSAT and whomever (US gov't probably) were able to distinguish which satellite(s) were handshaking with the aircraft, but only to a degree that established an "arc". That arc goes North, toward the 'stans, or South, deeper into the Indian Ocean.
Even more, typically one satellite has more than one transponder and antenna systems directed to different locations, each with ellipsoid projection over the earth surface. And normally there is no distinction between informations received by different transponders on the same satellite, connected to the same system (ACARS data stream) So there is big chance, that more than one A/C path reconstruction would be possible - as in this case we have two.
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 13:29   #3922 (permalink)
 
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http://www.ctbto.org/fileadmin/user_...ines_MH370.pdf

IDC infrasound search for missing flight
Malaysian Airlines MH370

Quote:
Summary
This brief report summarizes the analysis and findings using IMS infrasound data and IDC bulletins on
the search for the missing flight MH370 from Malaysian Airlines. The flight MH370 took-off from
Kuala Lumpur airport, Malaysia, on Friday 7 March at 16:41 GMT and was on route for Beijing, China.
It went missing within the first hour of flight (source: BBC).

Infrasound recordings from the IMS infrasound network and IDC bulletins are then searched for
potentially related information. The IMS infrasound network routinely detects commercial flight
taking off and landing from local airports.
However it should be noted that:
- Commercial planes in normal flight conditions are usually detected by IMS infrasound
stations only at close range (within about 100km from stations).
- The only reported commercial plane that could be tracked over large distances (across the
Atlantic) with an infrasound station was the Concorde as it was travelling as supersonic
speed. The Concorde was discontinued 10 years ago.
- For flight MH370 to be picked up by IMS infrasound network at regional or global distances,
it could mean that it crashed, exploded or disintegrated. However it would likely not be
possible to draw any definitive conclusion based on remote infrasound recordings alone..... see website for more..
...seeing as this was from Cocos ... what does this do to the "southern route" theory???
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 13:31   #3923 (permalink)
 
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Theoretical

I understand your logic, but the last info apparently came from Inmarsat.

In theory, they just input and output data, but they have had the bright idea to check if they had any data coming in which they did not tranmsit as it had no content. They seem to have found the needle in the haystack. Bravo Inmarstat.
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 13:32   #3924 (permalink)
 
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I think he is assuming crew incapacitation in order to see if there is an innocent explanation...
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 13:38   #3925 (permalink)
 
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Is any one else wondering about the Freescale Semiconductor Experts on board. 20 highly skilled engineers & developers of hi tech aircraft navigation & weapons systems with radar-cloaking capacity via "aeronautical hardware technology produced by Freescale" as reported in the press.
There is so much rampant speculation going on on this thread !

Go look up Freescale, they do a LOT more than aircraft related stuff.... they are a broad semiconductor company supplying and designing components from aircraft to computers to telephones to everything and anything in between.

Given China's status as a major manufacturing centre for many companies, its perhaps no surprise that bunches of engineers from a major semiconductor company fly there on a regular basis. Freescale have something like 18,000 employees.... sending 20 employees somewhere is no big deal !

Don't believe all the nonsense journalists publish, and certainly don't read too much into it !
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 13:45   #3926 (permalink)
 
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The "altitude excursions" that keep getting mentioned don't seem likely. I think between inaccurate primary radar and F-15 performance from a 777 I would have to go with the former.
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 13:45   #3927 (permalink)
 
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Flying into Gan or other islands ignores the fact that they have radars and eyes and know you are not a flight planned flight. It would be reported unless they were a perpetrator country and satellites would identify the a/c on the ground. It has to reach a rogue country like Somalia for cover if routing South of India and that's stretching it.
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 13:45   #3928 (permalink)
 
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I am imagining that 777 has no fire detection/suppression in the E&E bay.

Somewhat wild guess (among many even wilder guesses) would suggest a slow undetected melting of various electrical components which sequentially disabled ACARS/Tpndr/ Comms / CrewO2/Control of pressurisation . . . is it possible that the depressurisation could have deprived the fire/smouldering of oxygen sufficiently to extinguish/halt the electrical carnage leaving the AP/FBW to continue serenely in Marie Celeste fashion till fuel exhaustion ?
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 13:49   #3929 (permalink)
 
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The altitude excursions may not be accurate because of primary radar, but nevertheless probably occurred to some extent. The readings may have merely exaggerated the trends.
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 13:53   #3930 (permalink)
 
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Do we have some packet that says <ACARS SYSTEM BEING TURNED OFF NOW> or is just that it missed the usual interval?
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 13:55   #3931 (permalink)
 
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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Folks: why would an apparently competent crew turns off ACARS and transponder but seemingly "forget" about SATCOM (assuming this is indeed the satellite feed the authorities are referring to - I have not seen any formal reference to IMARSAT) ? And in the case it was not a deliberate act is there any scenario that would take off ACARS and transponder yet allow the aircraft to fly for another 4-5 hours ?! I can't think of any...
Really really weird one !
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 13:56   #3932 (permalink)
 
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R/T

Does your vhf announce your presence even if you are only listening?
Once upon a time it did not appear to.
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 13:56   #3933 (permalink)
 
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Oceanic

Quote:
As a Professional Pilots forum, these fanciful posts are embarassing. Heists, gold bullion, conspiracies. If you haven't anything sensible to post may I request you desist or join a different forum for fictional creative writing. 200 pages of posts, mostly drivel. Thanks to those few who have the expertise to elaborate on the facts.
Some intelligent conjecture, but primarily uninformed, soap opera style conjecture. Think I'll abstain and wait for the book or movie version.

Condolences and sympathies to the family and friends of all involved. Not knowing, while trying to have some semblance of hope has got to be trying. Much of this doesn't help at all.
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 14:01   #3934 (permalink)
 
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Reports say that MH370's last ACARS pings were received by Inmarsat.

If it's a fact that the pings were received by Inmarsat only, and not by ACARS ground stations, couldn't you deduce that MH370 was not in range of an ACARS ground station when it sent its last pings?

SITA ACARS ground station coverage:


ARINC ACARS ground station coverage:


SITA ACARS ground station coverage (PDF)

ARINC ACARS ground station coverage (PDF)
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 14:05   #3935 (permalink)
 
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Freescale

Quote:
Go look up Freescale, they do a LOT more than aircraft related stuff.... they are a broad semiconductor company supplying and designing components from aircraft to computers to telephones to everything and anything in between.

Given China's status as a major manufacturing centre for many companies, its perhaps no surprise that bunches of engineers from a major semiconductor company fly there on a regular basis. Freescale have something like 18,000 employees.... sending 20 employees somewhere is no big deal !

Don't believe all the nonsense journalists publish, and certainly don't read too much into it !
Agreed, chasing the Freescale angle as some sort of target for the hijacking is a waste of time. The employees on board were 12 Malaysian and 8 Chinese with titles like 'Test 1 Process Engineer' and 'Test 1 Manufacturing Manager.' Not exactly janitorial staff or cafeteria workers, sure, but not exactly rare talents in the countries that contain a massive portion of the semiconductor manufacturing facilities on Earth today.

If you had some burning desire to learn Freescale's industrial secrets when it comes to improvement of semiconductor manufacturing processes, surely offering a pay rise and a signing bonus would be simpler than some complicated plot to hijack an airliner, make it disappear, and torture the passengers until they spill the beans.
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 14:07   #3936 (permalink)
 
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Could someone share some light on the theoretical possibilities of a T7 reaching 45000 feet, as indicated by the Mal authorities.


This source claims the service ceiling being 43100ft Aerospaceweb.org | Aircraft Museum - Boeing 777
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 14:12   #3937 (permalink)
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It has been mentioned before, but how do you explain that there have been no reports of any mobile 'phone calls being received?

Passengers would have realised that the flight time was 'overdue'.

Are we saying that there was no possibility of reception throughout the route - wherever that might be?

Were the earlier (dismissed) reports of ringing tones now possible?
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 14:12   #3938 (permalink)
 
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Caygill Could someone share some light on the theoretical possibilities of a T7 reaching 45000 feet, as indicated by the Mal authorities.
This source claims the service ceiling being 43100ft Aerospaceweb.org | Aircraft Museum - Boeing 777
The service ceiling is not the performance limit.

At the approximate weight at the time the aircraft would be limited by thrust such that it could maintain about 40000ft with maximum cruise thrust. It could maintain a higher altitude with higher thrust if this is available or it could make a zoom climb to higher altitudes but not maintain.

I am of the opinion that @45000ft is possible but also consider that the height is derived from primary radar and is therefore subject to some error.
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 14:13   #3939 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Quote:
Yes agreed. I said before we need to know 2 things more:--

1/ Fuel on board at departure, this will be known by MH
2/ Cargo manifest, what were they carrying?
I will add one more thing to your list:

3/ Crews roster for last month, what was crew doing?
And one more addition: was there any crew rostering request with regards to this flight?
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 14:13   #3940 (permalink)
 
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Aireps, the maps are very informative, but I don't think SATCOM vs. a ground link is the right inference to base your conclusions. It's not that the Inmarsat pings were initiated by ACARS, but rather by the SATCOM system itself. From what has been released so far, we understand that the ACARS function was turned off, but that action did not fully disable the SATCOM - it only prevented ACARS from initiating any messages.

The "pings" under discussion were empty network keepalive messages sent as a matter of routine functioning of the SATCOM transceiver itself. Imagine this conversation:

"Hello? Anyone there? If, hypothetically, I wished to send some data, could you pass it along for me? Oh, I'm not paid up on this account? So sorry to trouble you. I'll ask again later. Perhaps then I can speak to someone whose bills I've paid."

If that is in fact what the authorities are working off of, then it doesn't matter if any ACARS ground stations were nearby or not, as there was never any ACARS data queued up in the outbox after 01:07 Malaysia time.
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