Plane down near Almaty
Join Date: May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some pea-soup fog in ALA today, so many shooting approaches followed by G/A and holding. Spookily watch FR24 today as colleague coming out of ALA on another airline was delayed by the fog, I watched EY A319 do about 20 or more turns, two approaches before buggering off sensibly to TSE. Several other g/a aircraft too, except for KC who seemed to go straight in (100m posted vis with RVR150m declared on METAR)
The posted accident site, is somewhere around 7km from the airport, but, if i retrace the g/a traffic from RW05 that I was watching on FR24, they all passed over this village as they executed a right turn... guessing this aircraft followed the same track, and rumour has it this was his third approach. News reports no smell of kerosene or aircraft fuel.. just a thought.
The posted accident site, is somewhere around 7km from the airport, but, if i retrace the g/a traffic from RW05 that I was watching on FR24, they all passed over this village as they executed a right turn... guessing this aircraft followed the same track, and rumour has it this was his third approach. News reports no smell of kerosene or aircraft fuel.. just a thought.
Last edited by udachi moya; 29th Jan 2013 at 15:42.
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Czech Republic
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Airport CAT IIIB, pilots CAT II (minima 350m, actualy 250m). Fuel enough for GA or divert. Speculation about icing.
CAP 18000 h, 1000 h on type, FO 3500/132 hrs
Source and photos:
Борт-200 - Общественно политическая газета "Время"
CAP 18000 h, 1000 h on type, FO 3500/132 hrs
Source and photos:
Борт-200 - Общественно политическая газета "Время"
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Canada
Posts: 819
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The aeroplane may have been Cat IIIa capable but only if it was equipped with HGS. Besides, it is highly unlikely this operator was 'approved' by the Authorities to conduct Cat IIIa approaches even if they had the equipment.
Certainly, if it were so equipped, the crew trained, the company approved and on a Cat II runway, they should NOT have missed the first approach in the first place.
Something out of place with this one I'd say.
Certainly, if it were so equipped, the crew trained, the company approved and on a Cat II runway, they should NOT have missed the first approach in the first place.
Something out of place with this one I'd say.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: England
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Crew ability to conduct a Cat III approach
If the crew were Cat II licensed, and the RVR was below that, i.e Cat III, then I am missing something, or should they never had made that last approach (query any earlier ones too)?
This reminds me of the Manx 2 crash at Cork, Ireland in February 2011. See that thread for similar details.
This reminds me of the Manx 2 crash at Cork, Ireland in February 2011. See that thread for similar details.
Last edited by Swiss Cheese; 30th Jan 2013 at 11:13. Reason: typo
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Far side of the moon
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Having flown regularly in the region, Ala-maty is one of the better airports, but that really isnt saying much.
I remeber a KLM flight declaring a mayday and the controllers english was so bad that the KLM crew really couldnt understand.
The standard of english by the air traffic controllers is to be quite frank very poor.
They also had a tendency to change the approaches from the published ones which caused no end of confusion.
I remeber a KLM flight declaring a mayday and the controllers english was so bad that the KLM crew really couldnt understand.
The standard of english by the air traffic controllers is to be quite frank very poor.
They also had a tendency to change the approaches from the published ones which caused no end of confusion.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland
Age: 78
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Out of fuel?
SCAT captain says they were out of fuel?
"She called her father [a SCAT captain] right after the accident and he named a possible reason of the plane crash. My father says that the pilot asked for an emergency landing (in Almaty airports), but they we told to make the second round. They did not allow the landing (at the first approach). The planes are normally diverted to Karaganda airport in case of bad weather conditions in Almaty. But apparently they didnt have enough fuel (to make it to Karaganda airport).
http://en.tengrinews.kz/emergencies/...-causes-16498/
"She called her father [a SCAT captain] right after the accident and he named a possible reason of the plane crash. My father says that the pilot asked for an emergency landing (in Almaty airports), but they we told to make the second round. They did not allow the landing (at the first approach). The planes are normally diverted to Karaganda airport in case of bad weather conditions in Almaty. But apparently they didnt have enough fuel (to make it to Karaganda airport).
http://en.tengrinews.kz/emergencies/...-causes-16498/
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 1,011
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Last edited by Kulverstukas; 30th Jan 2013 at 15:14.
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Czech Republic
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SCAT - Special Cargo Air Transport - they start enterprising with cargo service some 15 years ago.
I believe it is the biggest Kazakhstan private company. The absolutely biggest company is state owned Air Astana. One year ago I traveld by another SCAT CRJ-200 t/n UP-CJ005. Common unexceptional flight.
I believe it is the biggest Kazakhstan private company. The absolutely biggest company is state owned Air Astana. One year ago I traveld by another SCAT CRJ-200 t/n UP-CJ005. Common unexceptional flight.
Last edited by Karel_x; 30th Jan 2013 at 20:59.
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Manchester, UK
Age: 34
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Southwest UK
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SCAT
We were scheduled to fly at that time, but postponed for 3 hours, couldnt even get 200M visibility, when we did take off, as did the Transair flight in front of us, we picked up a lot of ice, and couldnt clear Servere Icing until FL120, then Moderate Icing until FL220. The worst bit was Grnd to 1000 ft.
No warning from ATC until after we took off.
No warning from ATC until after we took off.
Person Of Interest
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Keystone Heights, Florida
Age: 68
Posts: 842
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
7700...that's funny...I thought the same....
AncientGreek...A little below the belt, wouldn't you say? All country's airlines CFIT...Not specific to the country or pilot's heritage...I've worked with former Aeroflot pilots and they have excellent standards ala Western pilots...
Then there's the other factor...Flying in the enviornment they do, of course their accident rate is higher...But I've never known them to have "get home itis"
Actually I find the opposite true...Now they can do things they couldn't do during Communist times...namely lay over at the first opportunity...
AncientGreek...A little below the belt, wouldn't you say? All country's airlines CFIT...Not specific to the country or pilot's heritage...I've worked with former Aeroflot pilots and they have excellent standards ala Western pilots...
Then there's the other factor...Flying in the enviornment they do, of course their accident rate is higher...But I've never known them to have "get home itis"
Actually I find the opposite true...Now they can do things they couldn't do during Communist times...namely lay over at the first opportunity...
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kazakhstan Almaty
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Having flown regularly in the region...
Perhaps you have been flying in ALA in the last century.
All emergency cases investigated, the materials are sent to the airliners and in the last 5 years, there was not a single complaint by ATC phraseology.
Nonstandard phraseology often used drivers from USA and EU.
Every airport publishes a bunch of approach charts, but when ATC uses vectoring, adequate pilots have no question.
All emergency cases investigated, the materials are sent to the airliners and in the last 5 years, there was not a single complaint by ATC phraseology.
Nonstandard phraseology often used drivers from USA and EU.
Every airport publishes a bunch of approach charts, but when ATC uses vectoring, adequate pilots have no question.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: USA/Europe/Central Asia
Posts: 162
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree 100% with ALATOWER! And yes I am one of those US drivers that sometimes uses nonstandard phraseology.
I have been flying in and out of UAAA for the last 5-6 years on a weekly bases and have never had a problem with communications from the tower or approach.
The airport is not the problem! Unfortunately weather, especially in the winter, is!
My two cents
I have been flying in and out of UAAA for the last 5-6 years on a weekly bases and have never had a problem with communications from the tower or approach.
The airport is not the problem! Unfortunately weather, especially in the winter, is!
My two cents
Guest
Posts: n/a
Sorry to see this crash.
I was a regular operator to ALA and then Bishkek with the bmi 757. Nothing wrong with ALA RT at all, just remember what 'metres' you are climbing to if you go around...
As we all know the 'tempo 200m FG' is given from Nov until April in the forecast, it would help if they weren't quite so conservative with the forecast and a bit more accurate.We know the reasons though.
I was a regular operator to ALA and then Bishkek with the bmi 757. Nothing wrong with ALA RT at all, just remember what 'metres' you are climbing to if you go around...
As we all know the 'tempo 200m FG' is given from Nov until April in the forecast, it would help if they weren't quite so conservative with the forecast and a bit more accurate.We know the reasons though.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Choroni, sometimes
Posts: 1,974
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was a regular operator to ALA and then Bishkek with the bmi 757. Nothing wrong with ALA RT at all, just remember what 'metres' you are climbing to if you go around...
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Czech Republic
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Vice minister of transport and head of investigation commision told:
(Translation of this pun is something like this: It is a mistery: the pilot did go around and the plane did not, it goes to the ground.)
There was a fuel enough on the board of CRJ (for 2.5 hrs), the plane hit a ground nose down 19 at speed 240 kph.
My comment: Icing??
Source:
???????? ???????? ? ?????? - ???????
Это загадка: пилот уходит на второй круг и машина не уходит, машина входит в землю.
There was a fuel enough on the board of CRJ (for 2.5 hrs), the plane hit a ground nose down 19 at speed 240 kph.
My comment: Icing??
Source:
???????? ???????? ? ?????? - ???????