Aircraft Crash in Moscow
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sevenstrokerroll
Instead of someone doing that , why YOU do not use proper Vref. Here we come again to idiotic "pilot visdom". aaa never bellow 120 ( or 130) depends on airline
Indeed I recall the expression: we were so light that someone had to shoot us down to get it to stop floating the runway away.
Instead of someone doing that , why YOU do not use proper Vref. Here we come again to idiotic "pilot visdom". aaa never bellow 120 ( or 130) depends on airline
re Quote: from rog747
is the 757 also when empty, a bit of a slippery handful to land?
reply from douglasflyer
It was a Tupolev 204... (btw i knew the a/c here was a Tupolev,)
thank you darksoldier
however
one of my queries was about if the 757 was ''also'' a bit slippery when light
from one of close friends who i just spoke to who is a skipper on a UK airline on 757/767 he said it does require one's full attention to slow it down
thank you
is the 757 also when empty, a bit of a slippery handful to land?
reply from douglasflyer
It was a Tupolev 204... (btw i knew the a/c here was a Tupolev,)
thank you darksoldier
however
one of my queries was about if the 757 was ''also'' a bit slippery when light
from one of close friends who i just spoke to who is a skipper on a UK airline on 757/767 he said it does require one's full attention to slow it down
thank you
Last edited by rog747; 30th Dec 2012 at 09:37.
I found the B757 difficult to fly smoothly at very low weights. The B767/300 could be tricky too, but it was not as bad. Slipperiness was not the main problem, an excess of power, pitch changes and general twitchiness could catch you out, especially if operating at near to or max weight was the day to day norm.
Last edited by brakedwell; 30th Dec 2012 at 09:13.
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CVR and FDR are found, also ATC recordings are seized for investigation. Four dead, four very seriously injured. Still not clear how much was aboard (8, 10, 11 or 12).
Last photo of the plane (VKO, 29/12/12, 16:30-16:35MSK)
As discussed at russianplanes, second photo is made when the plane was around here and still 10-15 m high.
Video from resque site: Москва-24 (Attn! Shocking content).
Last photo of the plane (VKO, 29/12/12, 16:30-16:35MSK)
As discussed at russianplanes, second photo is made when the plane was around here and still 10-15 m high.
Video from resque site: Москва-24 (Attn! Shocking content).
Last edited by Kulverstukas; 30th Dec 2012 at 09:56.
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dear green guard...
of course you should use the proper Vref...that's the whole idea...but I know in two different jet transports, the vref cards sometimes dont' go that low.
the whole point is to fly right and some folk fly wrong.
of course you should use the proper Vref...that's the whole idea...but I know in two different jet transports, the vref cards sometimes dont' go that low.
the whole point is to fly right and some folk fly wrong.
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Runway End Safety Area (RESA)
ICAO Annex 14 requires a 90m RESA at the ends of runways such as this one.
Furthermore, it recommends the distance should be 240m. Looking at the Google Earth view and using the ruler it appears that the distance from the end of the paved surface to the motorway is in excess of this recommended distance; about 350m I think.
Looking at the video there appears to be wall of some sorts between the hard shoulder and the perimeter fence, but being beyond the RESA it could be argued it was not a factor from a regulatory perspective. But, how long should a RESA be?
Very sad about the loss of life, but could you imagine if it had been a bus on the motorway?
Furthermore, it recommends the distance should be 240m. Looking at the Google Earth view and using the ruler it appears that the distance from the end of the paved surface to the motorway is in excess of this recommended distance; about 350m I think.
Looking at the video there appears to be wall of some sorts between the hard shoulder and the perimeter fence, but being beyond the RESA it could be argued it was not a factor from a regulatory perspective. But, how long should a RESA be?
Very sad about the loss of life, but could you imagine if it had been a bus on the motorway?
Last edited by Sir George Cayley; 30th Dec 2012 at 10:11.
Ditch or no ditch there is at least 200 m of rough terrain (with added friction) before you get there. Judging by the speed that the wreakage hits the car the aircraft must still have been travelling at one hell of a speed when it left the paved surface.
A completely empty aircraft can usually be stopped well within 1000m so this strikes me as something a bit more than a deep landing.
Edit: The photo above is (according to translation from the website where it is posted) taken from a point 350m from the threshold at which point the plane is 10-15m high. This is a height that the plane would normally be at the threshold which would normally result in touchdown 300-400m in. So at very worst here the touchdown would be some 700-800m in. This would still allow 2000m plus to stop the aircraft. Something doesn't quite add up.
A completely empty aircraft can usually be stopped well within 1000m so this strikes me as something a bit more than a deep landing.
Edit: The photo above is (according to translation from the website where it is posted) taken from a point 350m from the threshold at which point the plane is 10-15m high. This is a height that the plane would normally be at the threshold which would normally result in touchdown 300-400m in. So at very worst here the touchdown would be some 700-800m in. This would still allow 2000m plus to stop the aircraft. Something doesn't quite add up.
Last edited by Doors to Automatic; 30th Dec 2012 at 10:56.
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So at very worst here the touchdown would be some 700-800m in. This would still allow 2000m plus to stop the aircraft. Something doesn't quite add up.
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Google Translate
From the Redwings Website
Dear friends ,
We have a large mountain ... On December 29, at 16.37 aircraft RA-64047 returned without passengers to Moscow from Pardubice.
crash occurred.
Of the eight crew members were killed 4 people.
We lost our colleagues - Gennady Shmelev Astashenkova Eugene, Igor Fisenko and Eugene Zhigalina.
We mourn and express their condolences to the families, relatives, friends of the victims ...
We will not leave the family without the support of our colleagues at this difficult time for all of us.
The aircraft commander Gennady Shmelev was born on 21 November 1954. Krasnokutskaya graduated flight school in 1977. He came to the aircraft immediately after the summer school. Went from the 2nd pilot to the aircraft commander. Given the award for accident-free flying 7,000 hours in 1999. Repeatedly encouraged for honest work and accident-free flying.
2nd pilot Astashenkov Evgeny was born on 20 January 1960. Graduated Sasovo civil aviation flight school in 1984. He came to the aircraft immediately after the flight school to the position of 2nd pilot. Has the bar for trouble-free flying third degree. Repeatedly encouraged for honest work and accident-free flying.
Flight Engineer Fisenko Igor was born on 28 March 1958. He graduated from the Moscow Institute of Civil Aviation in 1984. He came to the position of the Air Force aircraft technician after graduation. Has the bar for trouble-free coating. Repeatedly awarded thanks and gifts for the hard work and accident-free flying.
Stewardess Zhigalina Eugene M. was born June 24, 1987. She graduated from the Aviation Training Center Vladivostok Avia, in civil aviation since 2011.
The site is closed for technical reasons.
apologize.
Hour information service: +7 (495) 212-12-51 (Moscow and Moscow Region), 8 (800) 555 24 51 (free from Russia) Operational information is available on the official Red Wings in Facebook, VKontakte and Twitter.
We have a large mountain ... On December 29, at 16.37 aircraft RA-64047 returned without passengers to Moscow from Pardubice.
crash occurred.
Of the eight crew members were killed 4 people.
We lost our colleagues - Gennady Shmelev Astashenkova Eugene, Igor Fisenko and Eugene Zhigalina.
We mourn and express their condolences to the families, relatives, friends of the victims ...
We will not leave the family without the support of our colleagues at this difficult time for all of us.
The aircraft commander Gennady Shmelev was born on 21 November 1954. Krasnokutskaya graduated flight school in 1977. He came to the aircraft immediately after the summer school. Went from the 2nd pilot to the aircraft commander. Given the award for accident-free flying 7,000 hours in 1999. Repeatedly encouraged for honest work and accident-free flying.
2nd pilot Astashenkov Evgeny was born on 20 January 1960. Graduated Sasovo civil aviation flight school in 1984. He came to the aircraft immediately after the flight school to the position of 2nd pilot. Has the bar for trouble-free flying third degree. Repeatedly encouraged for honest work and accident-free flying.
Flight Engineer Fisenko Igor was born on 28 March 1958. He graduated from the Moscow Institute of Civil Aviation in 1984. He came to the position of the Air Force aircraft technician after graduation. Has the bar for trouble-free coating. Repeatedly awarded thanks and gifts for the hard work and accident-free flying.
Stewardess Zhigalina Eugene M. was born June 24, 1987. She graduated from the Aviation Training Center Vladivostok Avia, in civil aviation since 2011.
The site is closed for technical reasons.
apologize.
Hour information service: +7 (495) 212-12-51 (Moscow and Moscow Region), 8 (800) 555 24 51 (free from Russia) Operational information is available on the official Red Wings in Facebook, VKontakte and Twitter.
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correction
not exact translation.
1. Instead of mountain there should be sadness, obviously.
2. Out of 8 people, 4 were killed and one later died at the hospital.
3. Up-to-date information is available on the official Red Wings in Facebook, VKontakte and t-w-i-t-t-e-r.
I am not sure how you, guys can read that google translation. If somebody needs it to be translated correctly and in a readable way, I could do that.
1. Instead of mountain there should be sadness, obviously.
2. Out of 8 people, 4 were killed and one later died at the hospital.
3. Up-to-date information is available on the official Red Wings in Facebook, VKontakte and t-w-i-t-t-e-r.
I am not sure how you, guys can read that google translation. If somebody needs it to be translated correctly and in a readable way, I could do that.
Last edited by Sunamer; 30th Dec 2012 at 13:10.