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Old 28th Dec 2012, 09:55   #1 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 241
Dutch TV reports on 'Ryanair pilots denominated alarm over safety'

Dutch TV programm Reporter broadcasts at December 28 an episode titled 'Ryanair pilots denominated alarm over safety'
Since the press release about this program the news was picked up by many newspapers and others

Online newssite
Piloten Ryanair luiden noodklok over onveilig beleid | nu.nl/buitenland | Het laatste nieuws het eerst op nu.nl

Dutch political party CDA has questions about Ryanair
CDA wil opheldering over Ryanair - Binnenland | Het laatste nieuws uit Nederland leest u op Telegraaf.nl [binnenland]

Belgium newspaper De Standaard
Ryanair-piloten waarschuwen op Nederlandse televisie voor ... - De Standaard

Dutch newspaper NRC
Piloten klappen uit de school over veiligheid Ryanair :: nrc.nl

The Sun
Ryanair ‘puts passengers’ lives in danger’ warn pilots | The Sun |News

German newspaper Bild Zeitung
Piloten behaupten im niederländischen TV: Ryanair fliegt mit zu wenig Sprit - News Ausland - Bild.de

Italian La Stampa
La Stampa - Ryanair, la denuncia choc dei piloti “Sempre in volo con meno carburante”

More info and recording
Reporter - Mayday Mayday
Professional organizations call for research

Also on Dutch Teletekst news about the concerns
NOS Teletekst


Ryanair pilots regularly fly with less fuel than they would like. That is, four pilots of Ryanair in the KRO Reporter. They argue that, to cut, are put under pressure to minimize refueling. Their involvement in the program KRO describe them as an emergency. "I hope it does not crash needed to awaken everyone," said one of them. Professional Reporter advocate in-depth investigation into the fuel policy of the Irish airline.

"There is pressure on pilots to minimize refueling in order to save money for the company," says one of the pilots. This pressure leads according to the four security risks. "We always look at the edges, the edges of the regulations," says one of them. "Affects the safety? Yes, it does, "adds a colleague.

The pilots establish a connection with the events of 26 July. In Valencia landed one evening three aircraft of Ryanair with an emergency, a so-Mayday call, due to lack of fuel. During a press conference in Madrid, the Ryanair board on the correct procedures. But a Spanish air traffic indicates that there was an "emergency procedure. From a reconstruction of that night shows that a disaster was close. The incident was a direct result of the pilots of the rigid fuel policy of Ryanair. "If nothing changes, then it goes downhill safety", says a pilot. "Yes, I'm afraid that something will happen if things do not change," says another.

Nico For Bach, president of the European Cockpit Association (ECA) is deeply concerned about the policy of Ryanair: "It is waiting for a time a plane completely out of fuel left. For Bach calls for a thorough investigation. The Agency receives approval from the Dutch Association of Pilots. Chairman of Evert Zwol: "I would like to call it to the bottom to go. In the Netherlands, but also on a European site, to be very good to look what's playing. "

The four whistleblowers do in the broadcast report of a "deep-seated fear culture" within the company. Kites are, they say, are barely able to resist the pressure. "When pilots express their concerns, they are punished, they say. One of the penalties imposed is critical pilots transfer to a base far from their homes. A former commander describes the style of Ryanair management as: "A regime of oppression, a dictatorship."

Last edited by 1stspotter; 1st Jan 2013 at 19:03.
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 10:01   #2 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
"There is pressure on pilots to minimize refueling in order to save money for the company,"
...and this only happens at RYR..!?
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 10:27   #3 (permalink)
 
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It is not a crime, to have an accident. It is a crime however, to run out of fuel.

If I as Captain, am dictated to on the amount of fuel I should carry, is the day I give up.
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 10:33   #4 (permalink)
 
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My company would NEVER pressure me to take minimum fuel, in fact we do not even have a fuel policy at all. it is PURELY the CREW who is responsible for SENSIBLE FUEL MANAGEMENT, and so it should be.

I do not fly FR, I find them the scum of the Industry, and their pilots, who after all are Officers and a VITAL part in the company should AT NO POINT have accepted their deteriorating positions and insults from their management.
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 11:02   #5 (permalink)
 
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The final responsibility for safe and legal fuel amounts rests with the pilot in command. Any captain who faces pressure from management to take less fuel should ask his chief pilot to put it in writing that they have taken over said responsibility on their authority - and then share that letter with their CAA should that chief pilot actually have the courage to write said letter.
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 11:52   #6 (permalink)
 
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Any Captain who would allow management to dictate how much fuel he/she takes on is a coward and not fit to be a Captain.
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 12:10   #7 (permalink)
 
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I do not think it is right to call the pilots cowards or scum. I do not fly with or for Ryr but from what I read/hear it really is a company who bully and punish their staff without hesitation!.

We have a relatively sensible fuel policy at my airline where commanders are encouraged to save fuel where possible however if I choose to take an extra ton or 2 extra I certainly would not hear anything of it from management.

Easy to say you would leave if you where dictated to regards fuel decisions but bills still need paying and food put on the table. Do not envy these guys/gals one little bit.

Good luck.
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 12:25   #8 (permalink)
Plumbum Pendular
 
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So lets say you work for an airline, let's call it Brian Airways, and they have a reputation for bullying their pilots.

So you are called in for an interview as you are consistently taking more than minimum fuel. You show how brave you are and the result is that you are sacked. Which is easy to do as you are only a contractor anyway.

What now? Who do you go and work for now? You have a mortgage to pay, kids to feed.

What few airlines that are recruiting now are unlikely to recruit you with that stigma attached to you.

Quote:
Any Captain who would allow management to dictate how much fuel he/she takes on is a coward and not fit to be a Captain.
That is a crass and ignorant statement.

I am no fan of Brian Airways but I do respect their pilots.
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 13:04   #9 (permalink)
 
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Not crass at all, just the simple truth, like it or not.

And by the way, Roscoe328, nobody has called pilots "scum". Just re-read despegue's post, the poster is refering to the airline and not it's pilots.

Last edited by Sobelena; 28th Dec 2012 at 13:08.
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 13:21   #10 (permalink)
e28 driver
 
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Well there you have it everyone, Sobelena speaks the truth. Not an opinion but the (simple) truth.

Last edited by TDK mk2; 28th Dec 2012 at 13:29.
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 13:22   #11 (permalink)

Controversial, moi?
 
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Sobelena

Your statement is indeed crass and ignorant.

Few pilots are in a position to resist a determined and dictatorial management. Standing on principles is fine and dandy if you have plenty of money, no mortgage, no family to feed and really don't care if you cannot get another flying job.

I very much doubt you are a professional pilot to make such a statement as you did.
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 13:45   #12 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Few pilots are in a position to resist a determined and dictatorial management.
isnt that what a union is for? Oh yes.....
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 13:52   #13 (permalink)
 
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So you are suggesting that safety takes second place to management bullying? We all have mortgages and mouths to feed but if as a Captain you allow management bullying to overule your professional judgement, you're in the wrong airline or job and should get out pronto. I'm sorry if you consider my opinion crass but there you have it.
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 13:58   #14 (permalink)
 
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I just don't understand it...........what's the big bloody deal?????????

Air Canada, long ago now, demonstrated that an empty tank was "doable".

Then, there was Air Transat.

Of course, there was most recently Sully.....now, while fuel wasn't the issue there, the same principle applied:

Glide baby, glide.
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 14:02   #15 (permalink)
e28 driver
 
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ah, so he admits that it is his opinion, rather than an undefinable truth.
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 14:15   #16 (permalink)
 
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Fact is as stated before, a lot of these guys are paid by the hour. Therefore they are far more susceptible to management pressure. Surely an obvious flight safety issue. As for unions, forget it. This culture of contract pilots is a disgrace. I just can't imagine ever using Ryanair, the whole thing stinks. I don't think the pilots are cowards at all, just bullied and poorly treated by their management.

Last edited by shaun ryder; 28th Dec 2012 at 14:16.
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 14:23   #17 (permalink)

Controversial, moi?
 
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despegue

You have absolutely no idea of my background.

You seem unable to address the argument but instead launch into a personal attack.

Enjoy your black and white world.
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 14:25   #18 (permalink)
Plumbum Pendular
 
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Quote:
If you have no balls to take your responsibility towards your first priority at all times, safety, then please get out of Aviation
You can't use the safety argument all the time. If you took that argument to it's logical conclusion then you would never go flying.

The fact is that flying for an airline always will be a compromise between safety and commercialism. Just getting airborne degrades safety, where do you draw the line?

Most airlines do now have a fuel policy but the decent ones won't question you if you add a bit extra when the weather is bad etc.

PLOG fuel will provide enough fuel to do the job under normal circumstances. When circumstances are compromised then take some more.
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 14:29   #19 (permalink)
 
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despegue, who do you fly for and where can I apply? I'd happy be to give up my command for the chance of sitting next to a lovely mentor such as yourself.
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 14:58   #20 (permalink)
 
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Question

Wonder how many of the upright brigade here would exhibit the same tone and determination vis-à-vis a manager giving them hell about taking "unnecessary" (from a blunt-end bean counter perspective) extra fuel, knowing that a) his/her bonus depends on financial savings (and not on flight crews feeling good about their fuel status while enroute), and b) carpeting or maybe even firing a pilot for being kind of insubordinate and a financial burden will not mean any trouble from top management.
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