Dutch TV reports on 'Ryanair pilots denominated alarm over safety'
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: world
Posts: 3,424
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My thoughts are that to a large extent RYR have brought this unfavourable media attention unto themselves. If MOL & co had stayed low profile over the years and just got on with it they probably wouldn't be targeted as they are now. The airline they were (originally) supposed to be emulating, Southwest Airlines, has seldom, if ever, attracted the kind of controversial publicity which RYR has.
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Land of Milk and Honey
Posts: 210
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One thing guys....
Just because an airline hasn't had a crash, doesn't necessarily mean it is completely safe.
Taking Ryanair as an example, because we're talking about them (also, I won't argue that other carriers have their near misses, but the ones I've heard coming from Ryanair are as scary as I've heard without it all ending in a heaped pile of metal)...
What about the orbit on finals that took a crew below the elevation of Cork airport, leading ATC to hit the crash button? What about the well-publicised incident in Rome with the bereaved Captain? What about the aeroplane that failed to go-around when instructed to twice in Dublin, flying at 200kts at a mile finals, barely avoiding an A330 that was taking off? What about the runway excursions that seem to stay out of the press somehow?
Does the fact that none of these serious incidents led to deaths mean that RYR is an extremely safe carrier? Or just an extremely lucky one?
There are, I'm sure, far more stories of crews (many of who are my friends) saving a very unpleasant situation from being exacerbated, as in all carriers, but this idiotic attitude, most disappointingly from pilots, that "no crashes = safe operation" drive me nuts. There are so many examples proving that isn't the case, it's foolish to believe otherwise.
And of course, the point that exasperates us all, whoever we work for, is that punters will only ever worry about how much their suitcase is costing them...
Just because an airline hasn't had a crash, doesn't necessarily mean it is completely safe.
Taking Ryanair as an example, because we're talking about them (also, I won't argue that other carriers have their near misses, but the ones I've heard coming from Ryanair are as scary as I've heard without it all ending in a heaped pile of metal)...
What about the orbit on finals that took a crew below the elevation of Cork airport, leading ATC to hit the crash button? What about the well-publicised incident in Rome with the bereaved Captain? What about the aeroplane that failed to go-around when instructed to twice in Dublin, flying at 200kts at a mile finals, barely avoiding an A330 that was taking off? What about the runway excursions that seem to stay out of the press somehow?
Does the fact that none of these serious incidents led to deaths mean that RYR is an extremely safe carrier? Or just an extremely lucky one?
There are, I'm sure, far more stories of crews (many of who are my friends) saving a very unpleasant situation from being exacerbated, as in all carriers, but this idiotic attitude, most disappointingly from pilots, that "no crashes = safe operation" drive me nuts. There are so many examples proving that isn't the case, it's foolish to believe otherwise.
And of course, the point that exasperates us all, whoever we work for, is that punters will only ever worry about how much their suitcase is costing them...
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What about the orbit on finals that took a crew below the elevation of Cork airport, leading ATC to hit the crash button? What about the well-publicised incident in Rome with the bereaved Captain? What about the aeroplane that failed to go-around when instructed to twice in Dublin, flying at 200kts at a mile finals, barely avoiding an A330 that was taking off? What about the runway excursions that seem to stay out of the press somehow?
Inappropriate runway selected for approach and landing, by crew's own admission, "to save time" (and get back on schedule presumably).
Hotel Tango , you are spot on with your observations! Live by the sword and die by the sword.........
Last edited by Aldente; 3rd Jan 2013 at 19:42.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: uk
Posts: 302
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Firefly Bob wrote:
Well I don't know if this is a pop at me, I don't even work for them.
The thread is about safety concerns of those who do, and the perceived pressures, real or not.
If I were in charge of the largest airline in Europe, I would be very mindful of the public perception of my safety culture. Certainly not arrogant and dismissive about it.
if you are a Professional pilot you are obliged to go sick if you are not fit to operate
The thread is about safety concerns of those who do, and the perceived pressures, real or not.
If I were in charge of the largest airline in Europe, I would be very mindful of the public perception of my safety culture. Certainly not arrogant and dismissive about it.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: ...
Posts: 3,753
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sure the president of ECA and VNV are KLM pilots, but obviously they aren't speaking as KLM pilots but as spokesmen for the industrial organisations.
Sadly the big orange airline is doing exactly the same thing with regard to contractors.
But at least the union is trying to stop this, see what they have to say:
BALPA | EASYJET PROFITS BUILT ON USE OF CASUAL LABOUR
BALPA | EASYJET BONUS DIFFICULT FOR PILOTS TO SWALLOW
BALPA | PASSENGERS SHOULD SPARE A THOUGHT FOR PILOTS
BALPA | AIRLINES ON NOTICE TO STOP PILOT EXPLOITATION
Support the easyjet plane easyjet pilot campaign by going to facebook and like/share the campaign logo: http://www.facebook.com/BALPApilots
Sadly the big orange airline is doing exactly the same thing with regard to contractors.
But at least the union is trying to stop this, see what they have to say:
BALPA | EASYJET PROFITS BUILT ON USE OF CASUAL LABOUR
BALPA | EASYJET BONUS DIFFICULT FOR PILOTS TO SWALLOW
BALPA | PASSENGERS SHOULD SPARE A THOUGHT FOR PILOTS
BALPA | AIRLINES ON NOTICE TO STOP PILOT EXPLOITATION
AIRLINES ON NOTICE TO STOP PILOT EXPLOITATION
03/11/2012
*
British pilots have today unanimously agreed to say 'enough is enough' to the ever-growing use of 'contract pilots' in UK airlines.
At its Annual Delegates Conference, the British Airline Pilots' Association (BALPA) heard from two young pilots, recently trained, who spoke of the struggle they have had to fulfil their dream of being an airline pilot.
BALPA General Secretary, Jim McAuslan, said:
'I have rarely seen conference so united, and so determined to tackle an issue. *
'Unlike in previous decades it is now normal for trainee pilots to have to pay for all their training themselves, with no guarantee job at the end of it, and then be forced onto different contracts from permanent* pilots with substandard terms and conditions.* And in certain circumstances pilots are forced to set up their own company so the airline can treat them as contractors, rather than employees, which they effectively are.
'The result is pilots not just on lower terms and conditions than permanent employees, but their effectively being exploited because of their love for the job.* Pilots should not have to sleep in airport car parks because they can't afford a hotel room; that's not good for flight safety. And it is simply wrong for recently-qualified pilots to have to service debts so huge that they have to pay £1,400 a month of their £1,600 salary in repayments.
'BALPA is not going to allow this situation to continue.* This unfairness needs to be tackled across the industry.* That's why today, permanent pilots in easyJet expressed their support to their 'FlexiCrew' colleagues who are on these other contracts.* The message is simple: easyJet plane – easyJet pilot.
'But this is not just about easyJet.* We will be working airline by airline to ensure this is tackled.
'We will be putting pressure on the regulator to ensure that their own rules around contract pilots are followed, which we do not think they currently are, and where we think they are insufficient, urging change.
'We will be considering all legal avenues to stop this practice.
'We will be looking at the tax implications of airlines' use of contract pilots, and ensuring our members have all the information they need to ensure they are protected.* We have already urged the House of Commons Treasury Select Committee to look into the tax issues around contract pilots.
'And conference did not rule out the use of industrial action to deal with this insidious threat to pilots' futures.'
The TUC's General Secretary-designate, Frances O'Grady, spoke at BALPA's conference yesterday and expressed her support for BALPA's many campaigns, including our desire to tackle the growing use of casual labour in aviation.
03/11/2012
*
British pilots have today unanimously agreed to say 'enough is enough' to the ever-growing use of 'contract pilots' in UK airlines.
At its Annual Delegates Conference, the British Airline Pilots' Association (BALPA) heard from two young pilots, recently trained, who spoke of the struggle they have had to fulfil their dream of being an airline pilot.
BALPA General Secretary, Jim McAuslan, said:
'I have rarely seen conference so united, and so determined to tackle an issue. *
'Unlike in previous decades it is now normal for trainee pilots to have to pay for all their training themselves, with no guarantee job at the end of it, and then be forced onto different contracts from permanent* pilots with substandard terms and conditions.* And in certain circumstances pilots are forced to set up their own company so the airline can treat them as contractors, rather than employees, which they effectively are.
'The result is pilots not just on lower terms and conditions than permanent employees, but their effectively being exploited because of their love for the job.* Pilots should not have to sleep in airport car parks because they can't afford a hotel room; that's not good for flight safety. And it is simply wrong for recently-qualified pilots to have to service debts so huge that they have to pay £1,400 a month of their £1,600 salary in repayments.
'BALPA is not going to allow this situation to continue.* This unfairness needs to be tackled across the industry.* That's why today, permanent pilots in easyJet expressed their support to their 'FlexiCrew' colleagues who are on these other contracts.* The message is simple: easyJet plane – easyJet pilot.
'But this is not just about easyJet.* We will be working airline by airline to ensure this is tackled.
'We will be putting pressure on the regulator to ensure that their own rules around contract pilots are followed, which we do not think they currently are, and where we think they are insufficient, urging change.
'We will be considering all legal avenues to stop this practice.
'We will be looking at the tax implications of airlines' use of contract pilots, and ensuring our members have all the information they need to ensure they are protected.* We have already urged the House of Commons Treasury Select Committee to look into the tax issues around contract pilots.
'And conference did not rule out the use of industrial action to deal with this insidious threat to pilots' futures.'
The TUC's General Secretary-designate, Frances O'Grady, spoke at BALPA's conference yesterday and expressed her support for BALPA's many campaigns, including our desire to tackle the growing use of casual labour in aviation.
Last edited by 737Jock; 3rd Jan 2013 at 21:32.
Well I don't know if this is a pop at me, I don't even work for them.
Last edited by fireflybob; 3rd Jan 2013 at 21:28.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Newcastle NI
Posts: 824
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why should Ryanair pay for pilots that go sick?
Now that i have your attention what i meant to write was "why should Ryanair pay for pilots that it doesn't employ that go sick?"
If I employ the services of a builder or plumber and he doesn't turn up I would not be expected to pay him for not being able to do what i contracted him to do.
Of course he/she is not driving my vehicle or wearing my uniform or not allowed to undertake plumbing or building work for another party, so in a nut shell there you have it, these people are by any reasonable argument employee's of Ryanair, if it is a genuine at arm's length relationship then the agency should be paying the sick pay, setting the roster, agreeing leave periods deciding on where you will be based and so on.
I know other companies have followed Ryanair down this path, but why, well to me it seems that without doing so they make themselves uncompetitive in terms of their cost base?
The only other profession that i can think of that works on ethos of no work no pay is prostitution, for that is what being a pilot is fast becoming, you get screwed at every turn and your in so deep with debts your only salvation is to put up with, but at least a tart (sorry sex industry operative) gets to pick her/his? days off and which street to work.
So if these pilots don't work for Ryanair, why is their PR department even attempting to defend their sick policy?
Southwest marks out of 10? well i have flown with them and the are first class
Ryanair have to date been saved by the EGWPS on more than one occasion and to be fair they have an excellent training and know only to well that their first crash if down to them, would probably be their last.
The Spanish, Italians, Germans and now the Dutch it seems are on their case.
If I employ the services of a builder or plumber and he doesn't turn up I would not be expected to pay him for not being able to do what i contracted him to do.
Of course he/she is not driving my vehicle or wearing my uniform or not allowed to undertake plumbing or building work for another party, so in a nut shell there you have it, these people are by any reasonable argument employee's of Ryanair, if it is a genuine at arm's length relationship then the agency should be paying the sick pay, setting the roster, agreeing leave periods deciding on where you will be based and so on.
I know other companies have followed Ryanair down this path, but why, well to me it seems that without doing so they make themselves uncompetitive in terms of their cost base?
The only other profession that i can think of that works on ethos of no work no pay is prostitution, for that is what being a pilot is fast becoming, you get screwed at every turn and your in so deep with debts your only salvation is to put up with, but at least a tart (sorry sex industry operative) gets to pick her/his? days off and which street to work.
So if these pilots don't work for Ryanair, why is their PR department even attempting to defend their sick policy?
Southwest marks out of 10? well i have flown with them and the are first class
Ryanair have to date been saved by the EGWPS on more than one occasion and to be fair they have an excellent training and know only to well that their first crash if down to them, would probably be their last.
The Spanish, Italians, Germans and now the Dutch it seems are on their case.
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Suitcase
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know other companies have followed Ryanair down this path, but why, well to me it seems that without doing so they make themselves uncompetitive in terms of their cost base?
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: uk
Posts: 302
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the responsibilities of an aircraft Commander and other members of Flight Crew which are enshrined in Air Law
Which is the whole point of this thread.
" We provided them with the weapons and the ammunition, and pointed out the target, and offered the bounty, but they decided to open fire..."
Or:
"We provided the unguarded machinery, but they decided to stick their hands in..."
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Belgium
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As a ryanair pilot I do not understand the fuzz and the negativism.... Sorry beats me, but I see arguments of many of you which are sadly wrong. It's 1am now, should I list all these wrong arguments/statements etc then it'll be 4am before I tuck in.
And if I am sick, I do not fly.
737Jock
"Sure the president of ECA and VNV are KLM pilots, but obviously they aren't speaking as KLM pilots but as spokesmen for the industrial organisations."
What do these guys know about ryanair? Did they work for ryanair? Have they hard facts or just surfing on the crest of an enourmous wave of rumours by people feeling somehow wronged by ryanair... These chicken litlle like characters are on the payroll of an airline (KLM) that is threatened economically by ryanair. I really think it shows enormous arrogance and frankly stupidity by going public like that. The little respect I had for these folks is now fully gone.
And if I am sick, I do not fly.
737Jock
"Sure the president of ECA and VNV are KLM pilots, but obviously they aren't speaking as KLM pilots but as spokesmen for the industrial organisations."
What do these guys know about ryanair? Did they work for ryanair? Have they hard facts or just surfing on the crest of an enourmous wave of rumours by people feeling somehow wronged by ryanair... These chicken litlle like characters are on the payroll of an airline (KLM) that is threatened economically by ryanair. I really think it shows enormous arrogance and frankly stupidity by going public like that. The little respect I had for these folks is now fully gone.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: monaco
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The crap this airline is made of is slowly but surely surfacing, the comments of those who still try to defend this sick and decaying business model are more and more pathetic but the worst thing is the position of our managers who will rather live in denial then admit a problem and try to fix it.
I welcome and thank all the pilots involved including our KLM colleagues who are fighting a battle for us while we should fight it ourselves.
I welcome and thank all the pilots involved including our KLM colleagues who are fighting a battle for us while we should fight it ourselves.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: ...
Posts: 3,753
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Your from belgium badebas, I assume you speak dutch, but these guys respond with regard to the statements made by the 4 pilots.
"if this is whats happening...." "if this is true..."
And they give information on study debts carried by new pilots.
"if this is whats happening...." "if this is true..."
And they give information on study debts carried by new pilots.
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: north of barlu
Posts: 6,207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dannyalliga
While not totaly disagreeing with you about the atmosphere Ryanair staff have to work under I feel that the management are unlikely to punish a genuine case of sickness as it is not in there interest to do so, in my opinion they create an aggressive management stance to keep the staff in line and the spineless just buckle under and do as they say ( and write all sorts of rubbish here) while those with genuine problems who stand up and say so will get a reasonable hearing.
As I said in a post before I think you should take a few steps back and look at your employers with a clear head, may be then you would start posing contructive information rather than your outbursts based on your aspirations and dreams for the future.
I have been in a lot of airlines and there are always people who are determined to be oppressed victims of the system ( and tell any one unfortunate to listen all about it.............. At some length !) what I am saying to you is don't talk yourself into becoming one of life's professonal victims.
As I said in a post before I think you should take a few steps back and look at your employers with a clear head, may be then you would start posing contructive information rather than your outbursts based on your aspirations and dreams for the future.
I have been in a lot of airlines and there are always people who are determined to be oppressed victims of the system ( and tell any one unfortunate to listen all about it.............. At some length !) what I am saying to you is don't talk yourself into becoming one of life's professonal victims.
Last edited by A and C; 4th Jan 2013 at 09:12. Reason: Coz this apple spell check keeps missing things!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The second episode of the KRO Reporter programme is online now.
Most part is in dutch, an ex Ryanair pilot is speaking english language.
Reporter - Mayday Mayday deel 2
The effect on social media of the two programmes can be seen in the link below. It shows the activity on dutch social media on Ryanair (not sure what is measured) and the sentiment.
Coosto blog – Ryanair perikelen
The second episode had a lot of repeats of the first episode. The same error: again was mentioned that out of 17 diversions from Madrid to Valencia only three aircraft (all Ryanair) declared mayday. The programme did not mention Lan Chile had an engine flame out because of low fuel.
I believe the makers of the programme cut corners in their research by just asking a few people about their opinions. All of them have an agenda against Ryanair. I guess that is what media is about.
The most revealing part was a confession of one or two pilots who did fly while they were not fit to fly (in one reason too tired to fly). Other pilots refused to answer the question whether they ever flew while not fit to.
Besides the story of the four current pilots and the one ex-pilot the programme did not show any hard evidence (memo's etc) of pressure. They did show the fuel league table. But not a prove of pressure by the management to keep extra fuel to an undesired minimum.
BTW: can any other Ryanair pilot identify its coworker pilot on the crewcode?
There must be more than 1 ex-Ryanair pilot who like to reveal their feelings/experiences I guess.
I do believe the culture of the management is sick. I do believe there is pressure. But that is based on reading many forum, not on the programme.
Also not all pilots will feel the pressure. It will strongly depend on the mood/character and backbone of the base captain.
Read to many stories about crew members being sacked 11 months after the start for unknow reasons etc. Also pilots flying not employed by Ryanair but flying on a hour based contract is not healty. This is acceptable for IT or other business but not in aviation. Do think the EU should stop this. Easyjet goes the same way.
Most part is in dutch, an ex Ryanair pilot is speaking english language.
Reporter - Mayday Mayday deel 2
The effect on social media of the two programmes can be seen in the link below. It shows the activity on dutch social media on Ryanair (not sure what is measured) and the sentiment.
Coosto blog – Ryanair perikelen
The second episode had a lot of repeats of the first episode. The same error: again was mentioned that out of 17 diversions from Madrid to Valencia only three aircraft (all Ryanair) declared mayday. The programme did not mention Lan Chile had an engine flame out because of low fuel.
I believe the makers of the programme cut corners in their research by just asking a few people about their opinions. All of them have an agenda against Ryanair. I guess that is what media is about.
The most revealing part was a confession of one or two pilots who did fly while they were not fit to fly (in one reason too tired to fly). Other pilots refused to answer the question whether they ever flew while not fit to.
Besides the story of the four current pilots and the one ex-pilot the programme did not show any hard evidence (memo's etc) of pressure. They did show the fuel league table. But not a prove of pressure by the management to keep extra fuel to an undesired minimum.
BTW: can any other Ryanair pilot identify its coworker pilot on the crewcode?
There must be more than 1 ex-Ryanair pilot who like to reveal their feelings/experiences I guess.
I do believe the culture of the management is sick. I do believe there is pressure. But that is based on reading many forum, not on the programme.
Also not all pilots will feel the pressure. It will strongly depend on the mood/character and backbone of the base captain.
Read to many stories about crew members being sacked 11 months after the start for unknow reasons etc. Also pilots flying not employed by Ryanair but flying on a hour based contract is not healty. This is acceptable for IT or other business but not in aviation. Do think the EU should stop this. Easyjet goes the same way.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: monaco
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
in my opinion they create an aggressive management stance to keep the staff in line and the spineless just buckle under and do as they say ( and write all sorts of rubbish here) while those with genuine problems who stand up and say so will get a reasonable hearing.
There are also pilots with balls in Ryanair who do not accept bullying and refuse to fly sick or fatigued and carry the fuel they deem appropriate for the day.
You passengers should just hope your pilots on the day belong to the latter category.
To me there is an evident problem within the company culture that can potentially affect safety, if for you A and C this way of doing business is fine please let me know who you fly for and I will avoid your outfit just like I do with mine for my personal and family travels.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: CPT Embraer
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some Ryanair-colleagues who respond in this thread are the perfect example of being "higher in the food-chain" and who have no interest in looking back what has happened to their fellow colleagues who have joined the same company since then...
Why brag about your 120K salary and that you work from the base you prefer if the majority of you colleagues are contracters whose T&C are falling faster as a rock and are shipped through Europe to different bases faster than DHL is delivering it's parcels....
These freshmen who have joined Ryanair the recent years have to pay for TR and own expenses which means they have to fund an additional 45K euro after already having paid 100K+ for their flight training. That means they are well beyond their arses in debts, and in no position to argue with their employer about working hours, rostering, base allocation or any decisions they make during their working days.
We call it FEAR!! Fear of being scheduled with only low hours and many SBY's, fear of being allocated to a base that lies even further towards Russian territory, or fear of not having the possibility to live a normal social life because the company hasn't implemented any form of "Corporate Social Responsibility" for it's workforce that is helping to achieve Ryanair's multimilion profit.
Things will not improve when nobody within Ryanair's 'foodchain' (regardless of position) is willing to look backward. Please acknowledge the deterioration within your company. You might be Captain by now with good T&C's, but then again you are flying with these freshmen who are in a completely different mindset without any financial and/or job certainties by Ryanair. They might not tell you to 'go-around' or that they are unfit-to-fly.....
I hope these freshmen are professional enough during their daily operation as a pilot for Ryanair to make the right decisions in the interest of safety, but how much more decrease in T&C's are they willing to accept before they can't be that professional anymore and act like puppets whose strings are controlled by MOL? In my opinion a person with 150K+ debt with no financial and/or job certainties and no backup by any Pilot Association could easily become such a puppet....
Wake up!!
Why brag about your 120K salary and that you work from the base you prefer if the majority of you colleagues are contracters whose T&C are falling faster as a rock and are shipped through Europe to different bases faster than DHL is delivering it's parcels....
These freshmen who have joined Ryanair the recent years have to pay for TR and own expenses which means they have to fund an additional 45K euro after already having paid 100K+ for their flight training. That means they are well beyond their arses in debts, and in no position to argue with their employer about working hours, rostering, base allocation or any decisions they make during their working days.
We call it FEAR!! Fear of being scheduled with only low hours and many SBY's, fear of being allocated to a base that lies even further towards Russian territory, or fear of not having the possibility to live a normal social life because the company hasn't implemented any form of "Corporate Social Responsibility" for it's workforce that is helping to achieve Ryanair's multimilion profit.
Things will not improve when nobody within Ryanair's 'foodchain' (regardless of position) is willing to look backward. Please acknowledge the deterioration within your company. You might be Captain by now with good T&C's, but then again you are flying with these freshmen who are in a completely different mindset without any financial and/or job certainties by Ryanair. They might not tell you to 'go-around' or that they are unfit-to-fly.....
I hope these freshmen are professional enough during their daily operation as a pilot for Ryanair to make the right decisions in the interest of safety, but how much more decrease in T&C's are they willing to accept before they can't be that professional anymore and act like puppets whose strings are controlled by MOL? In my opinion a person with 150K+ debt with no financial and/or job certainties and no backup by any Pilot Association could easily become such a puppet....
Wake up!!
Last edited by PH-Chucky; 4th Jan 2013 at 13:59.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Uh... Where was I?
Posts: 1,338
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Important cuestion about ryr and fuel policy
I have heard of the repressive atmosphere in RYR when you can be sacked so easily for things such as declining to continue a flight for flight duty considerations or fatigue or for excessive fuel uplift...
What happens to a pilot who diverts early to the alternate for fuel reasons? will he be called to a meeting, sacked, degraded, or punished in any way or nothing at all?
The answer to this question is the key to judge the RYR policy as safe or unsafe.
What happens to a pilot who diverts early to the alternate for fuel reasons? will he be called to a meeting, sacked, degraded, or punished in any way or nothing at all?
The answer to this question is the key to judge the RYR policy as safe or unsafe.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What I do not understand is why there are not much more evidence by Ryanair pilots describing their working situation/ t&c on the internet. I read a lot of nasty stories told by cabin crews on internet.
It is because there are afraid Ryanair will trace their IP-numbers by requesting it from the forum owner and hosting company?
I am sure experiences can be described without Ryanair being able to indentify flightnumbers, names etc.
There are many ways to publish information on the internet so your message cannot be traced. https://www.torproject.org/
It is too sad, bizarre and unexceptable pilots have to use these tools to tell their story. It looks like East Germany in the Cold War days. Or North Korea.
It is because there are afraid Ryanair will trace their IP-numbers by requesting it from the forum owner and hosting company?
I am sure experiences can be described without Ryanair being able to indentify flightnumbers, names etc.
There are many ways to publish information on the internet so your message cannot be traced. https://www.torproject.org/
It is too sad, bizarre and unexceptable pilots have to use these tools to tell their story. It looks like East Germany in the Cold War days. Or North Korea.
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: asdf
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For anyone that is still doubting the pressure culture in RYR:
Infamous 2005 Ryanair Ciampino 'Serious Incident' - Report finally out
If a commander after loosing a son is still fearing of loosing his job if he reports sick for depression then there is a huge problem.
And the sad thing is not that the nonpilots support this sad culture... is that there are still pilots in some kind of corporate bubble defending this crap.
In Southwest after the last taxiway slip some things have started to surface out from that company, and one of them is the way they pay their pilots which make them be ina rush rush state of mind.
The situation is not as criticial as in ryr but definitely shows that certain politics and bean counter approaches can affect safety wether you like it or not.
Infamous 2005 Ryanair Ciampino 'Serious Incident' - Report finally out
If a commander after loosing a son is still fearing of loosing his job if he reports sick for depression then there is a huge problem.
And the sad thing is not that the nonpilots support this sad culture... is that there are still pilots in some kind of corporate bubble defending this crap.
In Southwest after the last taxiway slip some things have started to surface out from that company, and one of them is the way they pay their pilots which make them be ina rush rush state of mind.
The situation is not as criticial as in ryr but definitely shows that certain politics and bean counter approaches can affect safety wether you like it or not.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Germany
Age: 67
Posts: 1,777
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ridiculous accusations about Ryanair
Ryanair has exploded in recent years, allowing more access to air and it does not please everyone, so they try to hurt by betrayal and manipulation.
Ryanair explodes its turnover and has an exemplary record in terms of flight safety while others have debts and send aircraft in the ground
Ryanair has the highest rate of customer satisfaction compared with the other airlines
Ryanair has exploded in recent years, allowing more access to air and it does not please everyone, so they try to hurt by betrayal and manipulation.
Ryanair explodes its turnover and has an exemplary record in terms of flight safety while others have debts and send aircraft in the ground
Ryanair has the highest rate of customer satisfaction compared with the other airlines