Dutch TV reports on 'Ryanair pilots denominated alarm over safety'
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Dannyalliga
You are too close to the problem...........take a few steps back and you will see it more clearly.
The facts are the RYR fuel policy is tight but within the regulations, but just meeting the regulations is not always safe.
The documentary program had an agenda to be critical to Ryanair and that they have done but at the expence of not telling the whole truth about the shortcomings of the Spanish ATC system.
Having worked a damp lease for Ryanair I have to say that I did not like the attitude of the company towards the crews one little bit but I would never take less fuel than I was happy with and I was questioned as to why I had that fuel loaded. Some of the other pilots regarded these questions about fuel loads as a subtle form of intimidation........ I treated them as an inquiry into fuel policy and found that when justified on safety grounds I had no problems, others seemed to not have the backbone to stand up to such enquirys from the management and found it easier to fly around with flight plan fuel that they were not happy with rather than face off the management.
Keeping the airline staff in a constant state of unease is a Ryanair tactic to get the most from people, I think that the TV people should have used that as a starting point for the documentary and looked at the way this state of unease is achived and the resulting effects on the operation as a whole.
Now that would be a documentary worth watching !
The facts are the RYR fuel policy is tight but within the regulations, but just meeting the regulations is not always safe.
The documentary program had an agenda to be critical to Ryanair and that they have done but at the expence of not telling the whole truth about the shortcomings of the Spanish ATC system.
Having worked a damp lease for Ryanair I have to say that I did not like the attitude of the company towards the crews one little bit but I would never take less fuel than I was happy with and I was questioned as to why I had that fuel loaded. Some of the other pilots regarded these questions about fuel loads as a subtle form of intimidation........ I treated them as an inquiry into fuel policy and found that when justified on safety grounds I had no problems, others seemed to not have the backbone to stand up to such enquirys from the management and found it easier to fly around with flight plan fuel that they were not happy with rather than face off the management.
Keeping the airline staff in a constant state of unease is a Ryanair tactic to get the most from people, I think that the TV people should have used that as a starting point for the documentary and looked at the way this state of unease is achived and the resulting effects on the operation as a whole.
Now that would be a documentary worth watching !
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Keeping the airline staff in a constant state of unease is a Ryanair tactic to get the most from people, I think that the TV people should have used that as a starting point for the documentary and looked at the way this state of unease is achived and the resulting effects on the operation as a whole.
Now that would be a documentary worth watching !
Now that would be a documentary worth watching !
The second episode of the KRO Reporter programme to be broadcasted this Thursday will deal with contracts of Ryanair pilots and terms and conditions of the airline.
I am sure this episode will be available with english subtitles as well. URL of the second episode will be posted when it is available.
I think the agenda of the programme is to make the general public and politic aware of the financial and contract situation of Ryanair pilots and the possible effect on flight safety. Maybe the programme starts/re-starts a discussion in politics and pilots to have a union.
I guess that is one of the drivers to have to programme available with english subtitels as well.
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Just came across a letter/diary of a Ryanair captain posted on internet. Guess this describes the kind of stress some of Ryanair pilots feel.
He describes someone of the cabin crew was not fit to fly. But the crewmember did not call sick 2 hours before departure. Ryanair OPS wanted to register this as a no show.
The captain also needed to use some pressure at OPS to get a different, CAT3 aircraft.
Life on the Line
He describes someone of the cabin crew was not fit to fly. But the crewmember did not call sick 2 hours before departure. Ryanair OPS wanted to register this as a no show.
The captain also needed to use some pressure at OPS to get a different, CAT3 aircraft.
Life on the Line
Last edited by 1stspotter; 2nd Jan 2013 at 13:27.
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Keeping the airline staff in a constant state of unease is a Ryanair tactic to get the most from people, I think that the TV people should have used that as a starting point for the documentary and looked at the way this state of unease is achived and the resulting effects on the operation as a whole.
The second episode of the KRO Reporter programme to be broadcasted this Thursday will deal with contracts of Ryanair pilots and terms and conditions of the airline.
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Dannyalliga
Dannyyalliga:
or was your message meant for me?
If you read carefully you will learn that I am against the way Ryanair management treats its pilots and its passengers in a way to reduce costs and keep fares low.
Just read another story in which pax were given Euro 5 to buy food and drinks at Charleroi. The night before the flight to MAD had to return while flying Mid France. The next morning they could not depart because (I guess) the flight data monitoring system was removed from the aircraft the night before and sent to BCN for analyses.
I believe this is not a fair way to do business and it will turn against them in the long run.
or was your message meant for me?
If you read carefully you will learn that I am against the way Ryanair management treats its pilots and its passengers in a way to reduce costs and keep fares low.
Just read another story in which pax were given Euro 5 to buy food and drinks at Charleroi. The night before the flight to MAD had to return while flying Mid France. The next morning they could not depart because (I guess) the flight data monitoring system was removed from the aircraft the night before and sent to BCN for analyses.
I believe this is not a fair way to do business and it will turn against them in the long run.
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FDM
The FDM tape is usually just a cassette that can be changed in seconds, I don't think they would remove the whole box just to read the FDM.
It would be my guess that the aircraft was awaiting parts to fix the problem that had resulted in the aircraft returning.
Oh ! I am assuming that the pax got €5 each for refreshments, that won't go very far in the average airport terminal !
It would be my guess that the aircraft was awaiting parts to fix the problem that had resulted in the aircraft returning.
Oh ! I am assuming that the pax got €5 each for refreshments, that won't go very far in the average airport terminal !
Last edited by A and C; 2nd Jan 2013 at 14:58.
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A German TV programma broadcasted in November about Ryanair.
They also showed a Ryanair pilot who talked about memos on fuel reduction, no payment when you call sick etc.
It is in German language.
Die teuren Tricks der Billigflieger - WDR MEDIATHEK - WDR.de
They also showed a Ryanair pilot who talked about memos on fuel reduction, no payment when you call sick etc.
It is in German language.
Die teuren Tricks der Billigflieger - WDR MEDIATHEK - WDR.de
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This is the translated text showing the reason the Ryanair aircraft could not depart CRL to MAD on its second attemp the day after they had to return.
Full story in french here:
200 passagers du vol Bruxelles - Madrid sequestrés par Ryanair
This time it was human error: The system of recording data in the cabin, which had been taken the previous night to analyze the data of the incident, had not been placed in the device but was sent to Barcelona. He had to wait for his return
Full story in french here:
200 passagers du vol Bruxelles - Madrid sequestrés par Ryanair
This time it was human error: The system of recording data in the cabin, which had been taken the previous night to analyze the data of the incident, had not been placed in the device but was sent to Barcelona. He had to wait for his return
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Ryanair pilots fly even they are not fit to fly
KRO Brandpunt Reporter just released a press release about the content of the second episode of the programme to be broadcasted this evening on Dutch tv.
The press release in dutch language can be read here.
Brandpunt Reporter - Ryanair piloten vliegen ook als ze ziek zijn
This press release got a lot of attention in the dutch press as well (just like the fuel issue). Below just a few. Sure the foreign press will start to publish very soon just as they did with the news on fuel usage.
Telegraaf (biggest Dutch newspaper)
'Piloten Ryanair vliegen als ze ziek zijn' - Reizen en vakanties | U leest er alles over op Reiskrant.nl van De Telegraaf [reiskrant]
BNR
Ryanair-piloten: ziekte geen excuus om niet te vliegen
Trouw (Dutch newspaper)
'Piloten Ryanair vliegen als ze ziek zijn' - Home - Trouw.nl
Eindhovens Dagblad (Dutch newspaper)
'Piloten Ryanair vliegen als ze ziek zijn'
The Google Translate is:
Under pressure from management
Ryanair pilots fly even if they are unable to do so. They stand by working with Ryanair under pressure to also fly if they `unfit to fly 'are. That is punishable according to European regulations. They do their statements in the program Brandpunt KRO Reporter
Thursday. Professional organizations want an investigation into the company of the Irish airline.
In Brandpunt Reporter three captains and co-pilot tell their story. This shows that pilots of Ryanair which are sick or tired are sitting in the cockpit. "The company we are in this position. That should not happen. " A colleague adds: "If we do not fly, we do not get paid.
So if you're sick, feel not fit, or if you have personal problems, it will affect your income. "
Ryanair does not accepts professional organizations and trade unions as partners. The legal status of most Ryanair pilots is weak because they involve a complicated structure are hired as 'contractors'. A pilot says: "It is exploitation. You lose your morale and motivation. You
feel like a slave. " Most pilots are only paid per flight hour and have no health insurance, disability insurance and pensions. A former commander of Ryanair says: "It is obvious that they are going to fly when they are not so capable." In the programme Brandpunt Reporter pilots admit that they have flown while there were not capable. "There is too much at stake to this kind of risk-taking, but we do it every day," admits one of them. According to Nico Voorbeek, president of the European Cockpit Association (ECA)
the 'Very difficult for pilots to admit this, because it concerns an offense. "
"This is shocking. I'm deeply impressed because it touches our professional pride 'reacts chairman Evert van Zwol of the Dutch Association of Pilots (VNV). Both professional organization who last week called for an investigation into the fuel policy of the Irish
prize fighter, want now broaden teh investigation. Nico Voorbeek: "I think that a study should be done to the company Ryanair. Evert van Zwol adds: "This culture is very bad for security, act of government is desirable."
The press release in dutch language can be read here.
Brandpunt Reporter - Ryanair piloten vliegen ook als ze ziek zijn
This press release got a lot of attention in the dutch press as well (just like the fuel issue). Below just a few. Sure the foreign press will start to publish very soon just as they did with the news on fuel usage.
Telegraaf (biggest Dutch newspaper)
'Piloten Ryanair vliegen als ze ziek zijn' - Reizen en vakanties | U leest er alles over op Reiskrant.nl van De Telegraaf [reiskrant]
BNR
Ryanair-piloten: ziekte geen excuus om niet te vliegen
Trouw (Dutch newspaper)
'Piloten Ryanair vliegen als ze ziek zijn' - Home - Trouw.nl
Eindhovens Dagblad (Dutch newspaper)
'Piloten Ryanair vliegen als ze ziek zijn'
The Google Translate is:
Under pressure from management
Ryanair pilots fly even if they are unable to do so. They stand by working with Ryanair under pressure to also fly if they `unfit to fly 'are. That is punishable according to European regulations. They do their statements in the program Brandpunt KRO Reporter
Thursday. Professional organizations want an investigation into the company of the Irish airline.
In Brandpunt Reporter three captains and co-pilot tell their story. This shows that pilots of Ryanair which are sick or tired are sitting in the cockpit. "The company we are in this position. That should not happen. " A colleague adds: "If we do not fly, we do not get paid.
So if you're sick, feel not fit, or if you have personal problems, it will affect your income. "
Ryanair does not accepts professional organizations and trade unions as partners. The legal status of most Ryanair pilots is weak because they involve a complicated structure are hired as 'contractors'. A pilot says: "It is exploitation. You lose your morale and motivation. You
feel like a slave. " Most pilots are only paid per flight hour and have no health insurance, disability insurance and pensions. A former commander of Ryanair says: "It is obvious that they are going to fly when they are not so capable." In the programme Brandpunt Reporter pilots admit that they have flown while there were not capable. "There is too much at stake to this kind of risk-taking, but we do it every day," admits one of them. According to Nico Voorbeek, president of the European Cockpit Association (ECA)
the 'Very difficult for pilots to admit this, because it concerns an offense. "
"This is shocking. I'm deeply impressed because it touches our professional pride 'reacts chairman Evert van Zwol of the Dutch Association of Pilots (VNV). Both professional organization who last week called for an investigation into the fuel policy of the Irish
prize fighter, want now broaden teh investigation. Nico Voorbeek: "I think that a study should be done to the company Ryanair. Evert van Zwol adds: "This culture is very bad for security, act of government is desirable."
Last edited by 1stspotter; 3rd Jan 2013 at 09:00.
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Ryanair responds: we do not let sick pilots fly
Ryanair responded today to the news that the airline let sick pilots fly. Realy do not understand their PR office. They said the tv programme did not give Ryanair a chance to respond. This is untrue. Correspondence between programma and Ryanair can be found on the website of the tv programme.
Here the press release
Ryanair dismisses false claims from KRO REPORTER
edit: found the press release in English, deleted translated one
Ryanair dismisses false claims from KRO REPORTER
Ryanair, Europe’s favourite airline, today (3 Jan) dismissed the latest false claims by Dutch TV programme KRO REPORTER, which, just like last week’s programme, are unsupported by any factual evidence whatsoever. KRO's latest false claims, again made anonymously by unidentified contributors so that they cannot be tested or verified, is that pilots fly when they feel unwell (“unfit to fly”) or otherwise they would lose money.
This claim is manifestly untrue. Ryanair pilots routinely report being “unfit to fly” and are routinely replaced by standby pilots who are rostered on standby precisely to provide this cover. Equally, since Ryanair pilots can (by law) not fly more than 900 hours per year (an average of just 18 hours per week) they can and routinely do recover these occasional sick days later in the year.
The falsity of these latest KRO REPORTER claims is proven by the fact that in the last full roster year to March 2012, out of a total of over 1,700 contractor pilots, over 1,010 (or more than 58%) reported “unfit to fly” at some time during the year. These false claims are also disproven by the fact that Ryanair rosters over 200 pilots on standby on a daily basis to cover pilot sickness and other eventualities. Over the past 7 days, from Wed 26 Dec – Wed 2 Jan, a total of 169 pilots reported themselves as "unfit to fly" and were replaced by a standby pilot. These factual figures disprove KRO REPORTER’S anonymous false claims.
Ryanair now calls for an investigation into the low standards of journalism exhibited by this KRO REPORTER programme which masquerades as investigative journalism, but has over two separate broadcasts offered no evidence of any wrongdoing or of any safety breaches but has instead based its programmes on false claims from anonymous people whose identities have been hidden by this programme precisely because their claims are untrue.
The contributions by KLM pilots are equally unreliable since they don’t work for Ryanair and instead work for a competitor airline. The only factual evidence in these matters is the official IAA report into the 3 Valencia weather diversions on 26 July last which confirmed that all 3 aircraft took extra fuel on the night in question, and Ryanair’s continuing compliance with all EU safety regulations including pilot hours and sickness provisions.
Ryanair’s Stephen McNamara said;
“Perhaps KRO REPORTER should now explain why 169 Ryanair pilots reported themselves “unfit to fly” in the last 7 days if, as their programme claims, Ryanair pilots are unwilling or afraid to do so.”
Here the press release
Ryanair dismisses false claims from KRO REPORTER
edit: found the press release in English, deleted translated one
Ryanair dismisses false claims from KRO REPORTER
Ryanair, Europe’s favourite airline, today (3 Jan) dismissed the latest false claims by Dutch TV programme KRO REPORTER, which, just like last week’s programme, are unsupported by any factual evidence whatsoever. KRO's latest false claims, again made anonymously by unidentified contributors so that they cannot be tested or verified, is that pilots fly when they feel unwell (“unfit to fly”) or otherwise they would lose money.
This claim is manifestly untrue. Ryanair pilots routinely report being “unfit to fly” and are routinely replaced by standby pilots who are rostered on standby precisely to provide this cover. Equally, since Ryanair pilots can (by law) not fly more than 900 hours per year (an average of just 18 hours per week) they can and routinely do recover these occasional sick days later in the year.
The falsity of these latest KRO REPORTER claims is proven by the fact that in the last full roster year to March 2012, out of a total of over 1,700 contractor pilots, over 1,010 (or more than 58%) reported “unfit to fly” at some time during the year. These false claims are also disproven by the fact that Ryanair rosters over 200 pilots on standby on a daily basis to cover pilot sickness and other eventualities. Over the past 7 days, from Wed 26 Dec – Wed 2 Jan, a total of 169 pilots reported themselves as "unfit to fly" and were replaced by a standby pilot. These factual figures disprove KRO REPORTER’S anonymous false claims.
Ryanair now calls for an investigation into the low standards of journalism exhibited by this KRO REPORTER programme which masquerades as investigative journalism, but has over two separate broadcasts offered no evidence of any wrongdoing or of any safety breaches but has instead based its programmes on false claims from anonymous people whose identities have been hidden by this programme precisely because their claims are untrue.
The contributions by KLM pilots are equally unreliable since they don’t work for Ryanair and instead work for a competitor airline. The only factual evidence in these matters is the official IAA report into the 3 Valencia weather diversions on 26 July last which confirmed that all 3 aircraft took extra fuel on the night in question, and Ryanair’s continuing compliance with all EU safety regulations including pilot hours and sickness provisions.
Ryanair’s Stephen McNamara said;
“Perhaps KRO REPORTER should now explain why 169 Ryanair pilots reported themselves “unfit to fly” in the last 7 days if, as their programme claims, Ryanair pilots are unwilling or afraid to do so.”
Last edited by 1stspotter; 3rd Jan 2013 at 14:48.
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Yep, but if you call in sick with less than 2 hours notice you get a no-show.
This was mentioned earlier, and it's important to understand the details.
So you wake up at 4:00 for a 6:00 report feeling totally unfit. By the time you gather your wits and get to the phone it's 4:10. Now you remember the time your lousy iPhone didn't go off last year, and the time your car wouldn't start the year before that, and somebody said something about "three strikes", so in you go , feeling like ****, ears blocked and dizzy.
This was mentioned earlier, and it's important to understand the details.
So you wake up at 4:00 for a 6:00 report feeling totally unfit. By the time you gather your wits and get to the phone it's 4:10. Now you remember the time your lousy iPhone didn't go off last year, and the time your car wouldn't start the year before that, and somebody said something about "three strikes", so in you go , feeling like ****, ears blocked and dizzy.
Last edited by 16024; 3rd Jan 2013 at 13:18.
Yep, but if you call in sick with less than 2 hours notice you get a no-show.
This was mentioned earlier, and it's important to understand the details.
So you wake up at 4:00 for a 6:00 report feeling totally unfit. By the time you gather your wits and get to the phone it's 4:10. Now you remember the time your lousy iPhone didn't go off last year, and the time your car wouldn't start the year before that, and somebody said something about "three strikes", so in you go , feeling like ****, ears blocked and dizzy.
This was mentioned earlier, and it's important to understand the details.
So you wake up at 4:00 for a 6:00 report feeling totally unfit. By the time you gather your wits and get to the phone it's 4:10. Now you remember the time your lousy iPhone didn't go off last year, and the time your car wouldn't start the year before that, and somebody said something about "three strikes", so in you go , feeling like ****, ears blocked and dizzy.
If you report for duty when you are not fit to operate then you may regret it for the rest of your life!
I would rather be on the street having made the correct decisions rather than prostituting myself for any employer.
Last edited by fireflybob; 3rd Jan 2013 at 21:31.
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No fuel
Unfit Pilots
This is one of the busiest fleets in Europe, carried the 2nd highest number of passengers in Europe in 2012 after Lufthansa. If so much is wrong, why are their planes not repeatedly falling out the sky?
Unfit Pilots
This is one of the busiest fleets in Europe, carried the 2nd highest number of passengers in Europe in 2012 after Lufthansa. If so much is wrong, why are their planes not repeatedly falling out the sky?
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Ask me why I took more fuel ?....no !
I work for an ULTRA low cost airline ! I have never even been asked why, directly or indirectly why I took more fuel, the company works on the simple basis of 'he must have a reason' , and allow me to use my own judgement of each situation ! They ask me to save fuel for sure, but never dictate to me how, my point is simple....not all low costs are the same. Not all things in my Low cost are perfect, but in this regard, i admit...faultless.
NOT ALL LOW COSTS ARE THE SAME !!! Fly safe to all
NOT ALL LOW COSTS ARE THE SAME !!! Fly safe to all
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
One thing that people seem to have missed is that none of the Ryanair pilots were forced to sign their contracts. I was with buzz when it was swallowed by Ryanair and had the opportunity to join them. The contract spelled out the terms and conditions, which to my mind were unacceptable. As a result I didn't sign and was made redundant. I don't altogether buy the argument "the new pilot must find work somewhere" either. Anyone with ideas of getting into this profession (trade?) should have done his homework. Yes, I was working when conditions were different, but I still knew what I was getting into.
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Ryanair is Europe's most popular airline but apparently also the EUs most hated airline! Whilst it is obvious Ryanair don't have to deal with any real aircraft disasters they do seem to be constantly fighting social media PR disasters. For those who work with her and for those who fly with her, I hope their new PR team understand that fire prevention is better than constant fire fighting.
Ryanair is Europe's most popular airline but apparently also the EUs most hated airline! Whilst it is obvious Ryanair don't have to deal with any real aircraft disasters they do seem to be constantly fighting social media PR disasters. For those who work with her and for those who fly with her, I hope their new PR team understand that fire prevention is better than constant fire fighting
I am not surprised that authorities are looking into which corners Ryanair might cut with regards to safety.
Last edited by pilotsince99; 3rd Jan 2013 at 18:07.