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Old 21st Dec 2012, 22:25   #21 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
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Question

Quote:
Dear God; why would anyone in their right mind even attempt to do an autoland in these circumstances?

They didn't, so it's irrelevant!
Is it really irrelevant, or does it show the lack of common sense these days?
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Old 21st Dec 2012, 22:31   #22 (permalink)
 
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Is the A330 AP certified for AL on 1 engine?
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Old 21st Dec 2012, 22:44   #23 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
how can we have a thread without the 'metar poster'?
vtsp 201430z vrb02kt 8000 few020 sct120 bkn300 26/24 q1009 a2982 nosig


Last edited by Zorin_75; 21st Dec 2012 at 22:45.
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Old 21st Dec 2012, 23:06   #24 (permalink)
 
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if the majority here advocate an auto land an aircraft overweight because it has one of the two engines on fire, please leave the industry. Of course we are talking about airbus pilots. What do you guys do in training, sit and read the womans journal.
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Old 21st Dec 2012, 23:52   #25 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Quite amazing how many of the above post so knowledgeably and completely ignore the fact that they don't even know if it was foggy and that they can't auto land at HKT anyway..
Fog in Phuket, Thailand ? Does that ever happen ?
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Old 22nd Dec 2012, 00:09   #26 (permalink)
 
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Thumbs up

I quote a reaction made on the Aviation Herald
Quote:
By Denti on Friday, Dec 21st 2012 23:13Z

Well, uncontained engine failure, two hydraulic systems gone, crew flying on direct law and of course no anti skid on landing, all that well above landing weight. Air Berlin is quite lucky to still have a few experienced flight crews that know how to handle a multiple malfunction situation without any injured passengers or crew.
Gentleman,
This comment more or less describes what happened and not the assumptions that were made here prior.
If you are a 330 driver, you really understand that this a severe emergency that Airbus considers as " very unlikely".
Well done to the well experienced "Air Berlin" pilots
To the Green poster who started the Topic: a bit off to conclude that the tire burst was due to a hard landing after an overweight landing with dual hydraulic failure and 1 eng out. To the Autoland fraction: you have a third Auto Pilot in the A330 I didn't know off who suddenly works with a Dual Hydr leaving you in Alternate law until you lower the landing gear?? We are talking about hand flying in a FBW aircraft that is missing some of its flight controls on one engine.
Forget the Autoland stuff; you can't do one in Direct law and for sure not on a RNAV09 ( not to mention the offset 27) in the middle of the night.
As always. Please stop the false assumptions.
Well done to those pilots and the cabin crew. Experience does matter no matter what they say.

Last edited by el caballero rojo; 22nd Dec 2012 at 13:36.
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Old 22nd Dec 2012, 05:26   #27 (permalink)
 
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Fog?

In Phuket? No such thing.
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Old 22nd Dec 2012, 07:37   #28 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Very mild cool season or weather at Phuket Starts mid of October ends at mid of March. Celsius is like 25c-32c.The hint of starting cool weather at phuket,when moisture weather winds at phuket crash with cool winds arrives from china. This wind meeting create fog in Phuket for around for 2 days, on that time if you go to any mountains like Big Buddha mountain, feels like you are in some of the other places.
http://www.ephuket.net/wp-content/up...her-phuket.jpg

Weather Phuket | Travel Phuket

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Old 22nd Dec 2012, 08:04   #29 (permalink)
 
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Phuket and Krabi, both can be susceptible to fog...

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Old 24th Dec 2012, 14:11   #30 (permalink)
 
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If anyone is interested, Air Berlin have the Pratt P4168A option on their A330s.
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Old 25th Dec 2012, 09:49   #31 (permalink)
 
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After an engine failure,it automatically changes from normal to alternate law/direct law..in which many systems are unavailable including antiskid..in addition to that No 1 thrust reverser is unavailable and some spoilers also not available..this added to the over weight of the aircraft,caused application of more brake to stop and heat generation...I think this is simple explanation for the reason of tire burst.

Last edited by RAJITHRAJAN320; 25th Dec 2012 at 09:50.
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Old 25th Dec 2012, 10:21   #32 (permalink)
 
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This will make record as the biggest bullshit ever.
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Old 25th Dec 2012, 11:06   #33 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
After an engine failure,it automatically changes from normal to alternate law/direct law..in which many systems are unavailable including antiskid..
Really? I don't know what sort of Airbus you fly but I suggest taking it back to to Toulouse and asking for another as it sounds like it's completely b*ggered.
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Old 25th Dec 2012, 11:10   #34 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
RAJITHRAJAN320 "...in which many systems are unavailable including antiskid..."
According to my knowledge, the following systems are inop after a engine shutdown in a A330-200:

Engine 1 (2) Shutdown (ENG 2 shutdown in paranthesis)

BLUE HYD (if ENG 1 shutdown)
(YELLOW HYD) (if ENG 2 shutdown)
PART SPLRS
REV 1 (2)
CAT 3 DUAL
ENG 1 (2) BLEED
PACK 1 (2)
G ENG 1 (2) PUMP
B ENG 1 PUMP
(Y ENG 2 PUMP)
GEN 1 (2)
ALTN BRK (if ENG 1 shutdown)
PART GALLEY (electric)
(YAW DAMPER 2) (if ENG 2 shutdown)

affected:

SLATS SLOW (if ENG 1 shutdown)
FLAPS SLOW (if ENG 2 shutdown)
CAT 3 SINGLE ONLY
if one ENG FIRE p/B has been pressed A/THR may be inop - then degraded to CAT 2 ONLY

In my opinion the antiskid is available - but I flew the A-330-200 for only seven years...
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Old 25th Dec 2012, 11:17   #35 (permalink)
 
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[QUOTE]Is the A330 AP certified for AL on 1 engine?/QUOTE]

Yes, Cat 3 A.

Good on them, an engine fire out of HKT could not have been easy especially with negotiating with local ATC. ATC can be very good but as soon as things go wrong and nonstandard phrases start to slip in things can get very busy very quickly.

A few well deserved Chang's will be enjoyed by the crew I hope.
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Old 25th Dec 2012, 19:25   #36 (permalink)
 
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Post

Eng1 fail with additional green Hydr failure.
In other words: green and blue system gone and on one engine.
Overweight landing
These are facts.
So if you loose 2 Hydr systems you go in alternate law with reduced protections.
Once you lower the gear, you are in direct law.
All the discussions about Autoland are not relevant.
The assumption that once you loose an engine you are in alternate law is not correct.
On all the Airbus 330 and 320 (on which I am rated and current on) series you can still make an Autoland with one engine out. Correctly stated CAT 3 A or single as mentioned in Airbus Aircraft. Things change when you loose more then "just" an engine.
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Old 25th Dec 2012, 19:44   #37 (permalink)
 
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Q for 330 guys - does a "vanilla" engine failure in the '330 result in 1 Hyd system loss?
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Old 25th Dec 2012, 19:50   #38 (permalink)
 
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With no Green Hyd Sys. There is the small detail of not being able retract the landing gear. On one engine, not a good place to be.....
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Old 25th Dec 2012, 20:21   #39 (permalink)
 
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On an engine failure you loose either blue or yellow hydraulics...
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Old 25th Dec 2012, 20:26   #40 (permalink)
 
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Thx for info!
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