Ryanair authority problems
Thread Starter
Ryanair authority problems
As reported by the German newspaper Die Welt among others, Ryanair seems to be under authority investigation for having declared a MTOW of 66.990 kg as basis for the calculation of air navigation and landing fees but having systematically exceeded this. Every flight examined by the authority has had an actual takeoff weight above this value, but equal to or below the Boeing-issued maximum TOW of 74.990kg.
It is expected that within Germany alone, the savings amount to around 370.000 Eur. a month. The immediate future seems to hold a sizeable bill for Ryanair.
It is expected that within Germany alone, the savings amount to around 370.000 Eur. a month. The immediate future seems to hold a sizeable bill for Ryanair.
Pegase Driver
Join Date: May 1997
Location: Europe
Age: 73
Posts: 3,674
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nonsense: charges are based on declared MTOW , not actual T/O weight .
The issue seems to be ( if I understood the article correctly) between FR which declared all its aircraft to have a MTOW of 66,9 Tons , and the manufacturer data which says MTOW 75 Tons.
What is on the actual Irish registry certificates would be interesting to know.
If the Irish allowed 66.9 and someone can prove flights were systematically made well above that figure, the problems for FR and Irish CAA will be far more complex than some money fines about route/landing charges......
The issue seems to be ( if I understood the article correctly) between FR which declared all its aircraft to have a MTOW of 66,9 Tons , and the manufacturer data which says MTOW 75 Tons.
What is on the actual Irish registry certificates would be interesting to know.
If the Irish allowed 66.9 and someone can prove flights were systematically made well above that figure, the problems for FR and Irish CAA will be far more complex than some money fines about route/landing charges......
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Wor Yerm
Age: 67
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If this is true, it's either fraud (including conspiracy to defraud) or corporate negligence. One is a criminal act, the other should be punished by the stock market - when the punitive fines kick in. Also, their auditors should be in a for an appropriate fine as well. Failing to spot an obvious infringement of the rules should also be punished.
When we exceed our RTOW (declared maximum) my crowd offload passengers - we can probably imagine what the thieving pikey's attitude to that would be. Let's have a level playing field shall we.
When we exceed our RTOW (declared maximum) my crowd offload passengers - we can probably imagine what the thieving pikey's attitude to that would be. Let's have a level playing field shall we.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 18,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Unlike 'the old days' when a change in declared MTOW required days of notice and hand delivered parchment to the authority, I understand from a recent discussion here that it can now be 'instant'. What might have happened here is that RY 'forgot' to notify the 'exceedance' in whichever place one does. If true, whether that was through incompetence or deception remains to be decided but may well have handed the authorities a nice large hammer. Not a good move.
Yes could you see the Irish CAA doing anything about it, or being allowed to do anything.
Apart from the bootleggers and drug dealers, it is the only company in Ireland making any money.
Are the political elite going to do anything about the golden goose?
Nah...
Apart from the bootleggers and drug dealers, it is the only company in Ireland making any money.
Are the political elite going to do anything about the golden goose?
Nah...
More bang for your buck
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: land of the clanger
Age: 81
Posts: 3,512
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh dear Piltdown Man, you make a statement such as the one in your last paragraph and will no doubt squeal like a stuck pig when Ryanair want your name and address from PPRuNe so they can ask you to retract and apologise.
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: LSZA & EGWU
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's not Ryanair’s fault
- blame the passengers who cheat with their 10Kg allowance.
- blame the passengers who cheat with their 10Kg allowance.
Ryanair soll sich Millionen Euro an Gebühren erschummelt haben - SPIEGEL ONLINE
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Milano
Age: 53
Posts: 460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The issue seems to be ( if I understood the article correctly) between FR which declared all its aircraft to have a MTOW of 66,9 Tons , and the manufacturer data which says MTOW 75 Tons.
Actual take-off weight is of course irrelevant as far as ATC fees are concerned. According to the article actual MTOW was never exceeded.
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In my seat
Posts: 822
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If this is indeed the case, then Ryanair is not only guilty of fraud, but also of deliberately operating outside the authorised performance enveloppe, which is reason to suspend the Ryanair AOC.
If Germany has any balls, they will forbid FR wntry into their airspace until this issue has been fully cleared up
Airlines have been banned for less serious issues. Eg. onur air...
Ps. sue me Ryanair for telling my opinion about your alleged practices that put our whole industry to shame. PLEASE! I will have so much fun in court, and so will the media, I can guarantee that
If Germany has any balls, they will forbid FR wntry into their airspace until this issue has been fully cleared up
Airlines have been banned for less serious issues. Eg. onur air...
Ps. sue me Ryanair for telling my opinion about your alleged practices that put our whole industry to shame. PLEASE! I will have so much fun in court, and so will the media, I can guarantee that
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cloud Cookoo Land
Posts: 1,270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The wheel appears to be a turnin'. What goes up must come down and all that.
It's my belief that history is a wheel. "Inconsistency is my very essence" -says the wheel- "Rise up on my spokes if you like, but don't complain when you are cast back down into the depths. Good times pass away, but then so do the bad. Mutability is our tragedy, but it is also our hope. The worst of times, like the best, are always passing away" Boethius, 6th Century Philosopher
It's my belief that history is a wheel. "Inconsistency is my very essence" -says the wheel- "Rise up on my spokes if you like, but don't complain when you are cast back down into the depths. Good times pass away, but then so do the bad. Mutability is our tragedy, but it is also our hope. The worst of times, like the best, are always passing away" Boethius, 6th Century Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London
Posts: 391
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mate of mine had the misfortune to wind up working for a bunch of bucket & spade cowboys many years ago. He told me , at the time, that the company declared a few aircraft to have a MTOW well below Manufacturer's figure. He was told by the CP, no less, that this was to avoid Air Traffic charges. However, the aircraft were regularly flown above the "declared" MTOW but never , of course, above the Certified Manufacturers MTOW. Cowboys loved topping up the difference in fuel & making it easy to go long distances without being charged for the heavier weight. But that was a long time ago when the Cranwell twerps were in charge & thought that there was still a war on ! Line blokes, grateful for a job, cheered them on. My mate left. He told the CP that there were two things he would never do; 1. Break the Law. 2. Endanger the lives of innocent pax. He felt that he was being asked to do both on a regular basis.
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Milano
Age: 53
Posts: 460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If this is indeed the case, then Ryanair is not only guilty of fraud, but also of deliberately operating outside the authorised performance enveloppe, which is reason to suspend the Ryanair AOC.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bracknell, Berks, UK
Age: 52
Posts: 1,133
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Connecting a few of the dots here, would it not be the best idea to have weighbridges for aircraft in taxiways in order to (a) give the takeoff weight to the captain for thrust settings (b) charge the airline a tariff for TOW, and (c) give a checksum for any irregularities between the expected and actual weights that could point to something awry (such as ice on the wings?)
If they're charging based on takeoff weight and Ryanair saved millions, then the cost of a weighbridge pales into insignificance just on that saving alone, let alone the savings in lives and money from incidents based on false TOW.
If they're charging based on takeoff weight and Ryanair saved millions, then the cost of a weighbridge pales into insignificance just on that saving alone, let alone the savings in lives and money from incidents based on false TOW.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: TBA
Age: 47
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ryn operates with variable MTOW: 66,990; 69,990 and 74,990: you just need to declare which one you use prior to operate the flight. Most of the time the ATOW is well below 66,990 because the commpany is operating short flights, with almost no bags in the hold and little fuel tankering.
So there is no massive fraud on en-route fees; maybe few flights had discrepancies due maybe to omission or little coordination between crew and dispatcher or else. but there is no chance a fraud system has been implemented as most of the flights have ATOW around 62 to 64T so no need to fraud!!!
So there is no massive fraud on en-route fees; maybe few flights had discrepancies due maybe to omission or little coordination between crew and dispatcher or else. but there is no chance a fraud system has been implemented as most of the flights have ATOW around 62 to 64T so no need to fraud!!!
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: LSZA & EGWU
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Connecting a few of the dots here, would it not be the best idea to have weighbridges for aircraft in taxiways in order to (a) give the takeoff weight to the captain for thrust settings (b) charge the airline a tariff for TOW, and (c) give a checksum for any irregularities between the expected and actual weights that could point to something awry (such as ice on the wings?