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Old 23rd Dec 2012, 19:24   #81 (permalink)
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Binsleepin ( no , not me) but we now have a Boeing MTOW of 115,000kg. Glasgow aircraft & EMA aircraft "certified" by the UK CAA to have different weights altogether, the Glasgow aircraft being heavier than the EMA aircraft although the EMA aircraft might have to operate out of GLA to Paphos ! Another figure thrown into the Arena being 103,990 !At least you were not asked to operate the "lighter" aircraft out of Glasgow at the "heavier" weight, regularly, thus incurring lower charges. I think my mate might have been working for the same outfit because this was the regular feature of getting from GLA to Paphos. The "lightweights" were BASED at GLA but operated at the "heavier" weights otherwise Paphos was non achievable with more that 2 knots of upper headwind !

I am still on Selection Board & I will ask the next batch "what is your Max Certified Take off weight ?" . The tripe I read on all 5 pages of this thread will secure non procedure to phase two of our procedure. Good heavens.
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Old 25th Dec 2012, 11:36   #82 (permalink)
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Daren't post this on a new thread . . .!

'Brave soul' needed to become O'Leary's sidekick at Ryanair which even he admits is 'the worst job in PR' | Mail Online
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Old 7th Jan 2013, 10:14   #83 (permalink)
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I'm tempted to ignore this thread since it's already on it's 5th page...

But now SAS just jumped on the bandwagon, writing to Scandinavian authorities about this issue, claiming that RYR underreports to avoid fees. Danish newspaper Berlingske also says Air France contacted the authorities. In Germany the conflict is apparently bound to end up in court.

Some claim the fees RYR avoided may amount to as much as 80 Million Euro. One thing is clear, RYR doesn't have many friends (outside Ireland). Most of their competitors will gladly kick them if they stumble.

Last edited by deptrai; 7th Jan 2013 at 12:39.
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Old 8th Jan 2013, 08:11   #84 (permalink)
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One thing is clear, RYR doesn't have many friends (outside Ireland). Most of their competitors will gladly kick them if they stumble.
For which they will simply have themselves to blame.
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Old 8th Jan 2013, 09:56   #85 (permalink)
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Or, more accurately - their CEO.

Last edited by Aldente; 8th Jan 2013 at 09:57.
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Old 8th Jan 2013, 17:40   #86 (permalink)
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Ryanair authority problems

The problem with society today is that people "expect something for nothing" and there is an understandable thirst for travel. For years the Legacy carriers enjoyed a market monoploly but budget airlines then emerged which undoubtedly benefitted the travelling public. However, it then became a cut throat market in which certain carriers embarked on "dirty tricks campaigns" to attract business. That I can just about swallow but downright dishonesty (if it is established) is simply unacceptable in my book. If the current allegations are proved to be correct then not only should the airline concerned be fined but it should also be required to pay compensation to it's competitors who, possibly have been denied fare paying passengers.
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Old 8th Jan 2013, 19:04   #87 (permalink)
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How does one go from being the mouthpiece of two of the most loathed individuals in Ireland to landing a plum job with the IRFU?
Course claiming it, doesn't make it true but keep trying.
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Old 9th Jan 2013, 12:13   #88 (permalink)
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Ryanair authority problems

Its amazing to note that either Eurocontrol is so naive or us. Its virtually impossible to pull so much wool over their eyes. The CofR / CofA have the MTOW mentioned clearly and its a piece of cake to link up the flt plans and these aircraft documents and haul up Ryan Air. But if its really happening, then hats off to Ryan Air for conning everybody
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Old 9th Jan 2013, 13:27   #89 (permalink)
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Eurocontrol starts charging Ryanair maximum weight

Eurocontrol can be added to the growing list of organizations being fed up with practises of Ryanair.
Today Eurocontrol announced Ryanair will have to pay for the maximum takeoff weight of 74 990 kg.

Severall sources report this today in the Netherlands :
Ryanair betaalt het volle pond - NOS Nieuws
Ryanair onder strenger toezicht Eurocontrol

Google translation of NOS.nl post

The aircraft airline Ryanair will now normal overflight rights to pay. Calculated for the maximum takeoff weight of the unit. The European air traffic Eurocontrol has adopted it.

The following are the messages about rumbling with Ryanair with the specified weight of the aircraft. By a lower weight to give Ryanair paid lower fares.

In Germany, for example 17 euros per flight are paid less, annualized amounts to 370,000 euros. According to aviation experts across Europe would amount to 50 million euros. According to Eurocontrol has been a few months with Ryanair discussed the takeoff weight.

Eurocontrol collects throughout Europe for its member countries on the fly are also known as air traffic fees. For the determination of the tariff system of the maximum take-off weight (MTOW, Maximum Take-Off Weight) used.
standard Weight

On the 737-800 Ryanair is now a standard weight of 74 990 pounds granted. Eurocontrol stresses that it is purely a financial issue and has no impact on safety. KLM also makes use of the possibility of reduced rates.
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Old 9th Jan 2013, 13:34   #90 (permalink)
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Its amazing to note that either Eurocontrol is so naive or us. Its virtually impossible to pull so much wool over their eyes. The CofR / CofA have the MTOW mentioned clearly and its a piece of cake to link up the flt plans and these aircraft documents and haul up Ryan Air. But if its really happening, then hats off to Ryan Air for conning everybody
Unless the IAA refuses to divulge that information citing privacy reasons (yeah, right) forcing you to board each RYR plane prior to departure to actually look at the current CofR, in which case it gets a bit more complicated and time-consuming.
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Old 9th Jan 2013, 14:10   #91 (permalink)
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After reading this thread I still do not understand why Eurocontrol is going to charge Ryanair the MTOW of 74990 kg.

What I understand from the Eurocontrol FAQ is:
"The MTOW declared should be the maximum certificated take-off weight of the aircraft. In the case of multiple certificated take-off weights, the MTOW to be declared must be the highest weight authorised by the State of registration."

It does not say 'authorised by the aircraft manufacturer'

Each and every Ryanair aircraft is registered at 66900 kg in the Irish aviation register. And that is what Ryanair reports to Eurocontrol.
Latest Register and Monthly Changes - Irish Aviation Authority

However they use higher MTOW on some flights but that is okay if still under the MTOW specified by Boeing.

Is this some trick by Ryanair to have a lower MTOW registered?
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Old 9th Jan 2013, 14:37   #92 (permalink)
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Maybe I am not familiar with flexing MTOW's either, but I would imagine that it's not possible for Ryanair to have their cake, and eat it.

The only reason to certificate and declare a reduced MTOW is to reduce the Eurocontrol charges. I am sure one cannot be permitted to exceed the reduced certificated weight for ANY reason, irrespective of what the Type Certificate Holder (Boeing) states....unless one applies to recetificate upwards again.

Last edited by deefer dog; 9th Jan 2013 at 14:38.
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Old 9th Jan 2013, 16:52   #93 (permalink)
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"langen, ryanair 1ASS, flight level 370, direct KRH, 66 or 69 or 74"
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Old 9th Jan 2013, 17:16   #94 (permalink)
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Binsleepin, thanks for your explanation re GLA, EMA.

What would happen - in terms of bureaucratic monitoring - if you had moved a lower-certified EMA plane to GLA on a long-term basis, without re-applying to the CAA? Whose responsibility is it to pick up the discrepancy?

From what's been said, the suggestion is that the Irish registration authority blanket-issue the MTOW certs to FR and don't monitor the situation further. Is that 'allowed', or just poor practice? Can MOL offload any culpability onto them?
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Old 9th Jan 2013, 19:26   #95 (permalink)
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The only way they would ever be caught out is if they were subject to a Ramp or SAFA inspection at an airport and it was discovered that the MTOW on the flight plan did not agree with the weight as certifed in the tech log or displayed on the placard.
Never heard of a requirement for MTOW to be on a "flight plan" - it should of course be correct on the loadsheet.
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Old 10th Jan 2013, 10:00   #96 (permalink)

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Can anybody confirm the MTOW given on the aircraft's Noise Certificate as this is the key to understanding the issue?

If the Noise certificate states 66900 then, even with the SB applied, then I don't see how the aircraft could be operated at a higher weight without the IAA having issued a new Noise Certificate at the higher weight. If the Noise Certificate states 74990 then clearly RYN should be reporting this as the MTOW to the likes of Eurocontrol.
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Old 11th Jan 2013, 11:41   #97 (permalink)
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As reported by the German newspaper Die Welt

oh dear this could be quite expensive particularly if other airports investigate and find the same
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