Plane of singer Jenni Rivera missing in Mexico
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I thought all 727s had standby power in case all three generators and essential power were lost. Standby power had to be switched on.
Last edited by con-pilot; 23rd Dec 2012 at 23:37.
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con-pilot:
Since ours was a red guarded toggle switch on the overhead we called it "on."
It does and it does have to be manually switched on. Or correctly stated, switched over.
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TWA paid to have it placed on the overhead panel where all three crew members could get to it.
TWA famously spec'ed toggle switches on the B-727 and other aircraft panels to operate backwards from other carriers. Forward was off for the landing lights on a TWA plane as I recall. Legend had it that it was a Howard Hughes thing.
That LR-JET type rating that many of us here have covers a wide variety of models with many types of wings, engines, reversers and avionics suites.
Still, most of the bizjet fleet sizes are small unlike some of the legacy and cargo airlines with used equipment from other carriers. I once flew for an airline that had 17 different versions of the B-727 (including ex-TWA B-727-231's).
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I loved the 727. It was so easy to fly with the extra FE. I would have retired in it but we got rid of them so had to go to the B757 and 767. Flying to TGU, Honduras in the 757 was as much fun as the 727 because we could land either north or south. I loved the 727 and the 757. The 727 was easy to fly but the 757 had the power to fix anything that you got into.
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Thread Drift
Boobs are never off topic.
I have great appreciation for the female form --and am not British-- but respectfully suggest this particular thread is not the place for such discussion. Just my opinion, speaking as a guest and non-pilot.
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Essential power came off which generator the FE selected, except for the TWA config where, guess any pilot could select it. But no auto-switching, if STBY wasn't selected and 3 gens out--no flight instruments! I was always taught never to go with #3 gen inop--if you lost #1 and #2 engines there would be no way to power the standby hyd pump and no rudder.
At a recurrent a captain asked why he got a fire bell, they silenced before they could identify the light in the handle. The FEs in the back row snickered while the instructor mumbled something like he'd never heard of that happening.
Westie. It was designed on the B727 as an afterthought. Boeing mounted in the right wheel well, so no airflow for cooling.
At a recurrent a captain asked why he got a fire bell, they silenced before they could identify the light in the handle. The FEs in the back row snickered while the instructor mumbled something like he'd never heard of that happening.
Westie. It was designed on the B727 as an afterthought. Boeing mounted in the right wheel well, so no airflow for cooling.
Last edited by galaxy flyer; 24th Dec 2012 at 03:26.
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Most of my Wookie time on the 727 was at night. In the sim we learned that if you lost essential power that big damn red light would come on beside the essential switch. First thing you did was yank the cover off - the bare bulb would illuminate the cockpit for everybody and allow you to find the brake interconnect if you were on the ground.
That plane only had three pilots because they couldn't fit four....
That plane only had three pilots because they couldn't fit four....
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BobM2:
That could very well be the case. But, on the date of the accident a 727's standby power would have powered the captain's normal instruments plus (I think) VHF 1 and NAV 1.
As I recall, the third or standby attitude indicator, powered from the battery buss, was added after UAL 266 & was mandated by FAA on all jet transports, not just 727s
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g.f.:
The essential power selector was on the F/E panel in the standard Boeing configuration. Only the F/E could select essential power. It was the standby power switch that TWA paid Boeing to place on the overhead panel so any of the three could turn it on.
Essential power came off which generator the FE selected, except for the TWA config where, guess any pilot could select it. But no auto-switching, if STBY wasn't selected and 3 gens out--no flight instruments! I was always taught never to go with #3 gen inop--if you lost #1 and #2 engines there would be no way to power the standby hyd pump and no rudder.
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TWA famously spec'ed toggle switches on the B-727 and other aircraft panels to operate backwards from other carriers
And sorry West, for some reason I thought you knew the APU was in the main gear well. As Galaxy said, no airflow with the gear retracted.
At a recurrent a captain asked why he got a fire bell, they silenced before they could identify the light in the handle
Then the FE, I guess trying to make amends for leaving the damn thing on, pulled the fire handle and fired the bottle before I could stop him. So no APU for the rest of the day. Fortunately that night we RONed at a stop we had maintenance and they replaced the bottle. You better believe that he, the FE, bought the beers that night.
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It is true about the backwards switches on the TWA aircraft but I have to wonder if the airplane you flew was a former Lufthansa 727-030 which also had that switch configuration. I delievered such an airplanne to the FAA back around 1979 or so and I heard it wound up in the Con-Air fleet?
The Lufthansa config came about becasue TWA did a lot of hands on consulting for Luftansa in the arly fifties and beyond. TWA treated the overhead panels in their aircraft as "vertical" panels much as the FE panel would have been. Not only the landinghts but all the switch logic was back (or up) and on in these aircraft.
The Lufthansa config came about becasue TWA did a lot of hands on consulting for Luftansa in the arly fifties and beyond. TWA treated the overhead panels in their aircraft as "vertical" panels much as the FE panel would have been. Not only the landinghts but all the switch logic was back (or up) and on in these aircraft.
Last edited by Spooky 2; 24th Dec 2012 at 21:33.
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It was theorized on UAL 266 that when the engine failed, the one remaining gen tripped due to overload, the F/E selected the essential power to bat, but, in the download process, inadvertantly turned off the bat switch instead of galley power as the two switches were in close proximity & neither had guards. At night, low altitude in the overcast, everything went dark.
In response to this accident, a guard was placed over the bat switch & the previously discussed third horizon was mandated.
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you flew was a former Lufthansa 727-030 which also had that switch configuration
We only received one 727 (N27) from the FAA, the other two (a 100 and a 200) we bought. N 27 was the one that was involved in the midair with a Cessna 172 when it was still with FAA, if that helps.
We did dry lease quite a few 727s during the years I was there and I do remember one was an ex-TWA bird. Also, we leased one that was the old Hoot Gibson aircraft, that aircraft wanted to fly sideways more than it did straight.
Wait a minute, that was the one. It was the former TWA 727 that we flew for a while.
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airbubba:
They didn't move the essential power selector. It was the standby power they moved to the overhead.
That one never made sense to me. We believed it was a Gordie Granger thing, not a Howard Hughes thing. But, I could be wrong.
Fortunately, that era didn't get to my last two TWA airplanes, the L1011 and 767.
Seems like the TWA B-727 FE panel had an 'AC meters' wafer switch in place of the moved essential power switch. That could sure affect your flow if someone yelled 'Check Essential!'
TWA famously spec'ed toggle switches on the B-727 and other aircraft panels to operate backwards from other carriers. Forward was off for the landing lights on a TWA plane as I recall. Legend had it that it was a Howard Hughes thing.
Fortunately, that era didn't get to my last two TWA airplanes, the L1011 and 767.
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con-pilot:
The "Hoot Gibson" bird was a -100 (-31 type for TWA). I flew it shortly after it was repaired and returned to the line. The F/E took me down to the ramp to show me the still visible ripples on the aft fuselage. Ugh!
We did dry lease quite a few 727s during the years I was there and I do remember one was an ex-TWA bird. Also, we leased one that was the old Hoot Gibson aircraft, that aircraft wanted to fly sideways more than it did straight.
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still visible ripples on the aft fuselage. Ugh!
We leased it from some charter airline based on DFW, Texas Air or something like that.
Last edited by con-pilot; 24th Dec 2012 at 18:39.