The Aviation Herald under legal threat
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This is clearly all posturing and intimidation. Do you really think M'OL would want to go into open court and either perjure himself or "air dirty linen"?
Just as restaurant critics have a right to be just that, critical, than anyone can air a reasonable opinion based on fact. Was the approach unstable, well it appears so. Does that make it unsafe, I'm guessing so. Just in the same way I can tell a Premiership footballer has had a bad game, having never been one, you can have an opinion on anything within reason.
Just as restaurant critics have a right to be just that, critical, than anyone can air a reasonable opinion based on fact. Was the approach unstable, well it appears so. Does that make it unsafe, I'm guessing so. Just in the same way I can tell a Premiership footballer has had a bad game, having never been one, you can have an opinion on anything within reason.
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cowhorse:
You really believe that an annonimous poster can cause harm to Ryanair?
No. Problem is though, that the big media uses sites like pprune and avherald as ressources for their research about the aviation industry. And this is when it starts to hurt even RYR.
You really believe that an annonimous poster can cause harm to Ryanair?
No. Problem is though, that the big media uses sites like pprune and avherald as ressources for their research about the aviation industry. And this is when it starts to hurt even RYR.
Last edited by 20milesout; 7th Dec 2012 at 11:01.
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One wonders why these sites do not pool their resources to defend themselves in circumstances like this.
Last edited by NutLoose; 7th Dec 2012 at 11:11.
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"No. Problem is though, that the big media uses sites like PPRuNe and avherald as ressources for their research about the aviation industry. And this is when it starts to hurt even RYR."
Chinese whispers of the very worst nature. What if I had a bad experience with a company of any description, and told a friend who then told a friend who then put that information on a blog? Who has defamed who ?
Chinese whispers of the very worst nature. What if I had a bad experience with a company of any description, and told a friend who then told a friend who then put that information on a blog? Who has defamed who ?
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No. Problem is though, that the big media uses sites like PPRuNe and avherald as ressources for their research about the aviation industry. And this is when it starts to hurt even RYR.
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NutLoose - regarding pooling resources for defense - actual lawsuits are relatively rare.
Most companies do not have huge budgets for initiating court action. Corporate legal departments need to prioritize, and spend their limited budget where they think it will be most useful, and usually that means trying to enforce whatever they want to achieve by other means, like threats. MOL publicly boasts about how little he pays his in house lawyers, and how cheap they are, so I doubt he has given them an unlimited budget to play with.
Most companies do not have huge budgets for initiating court action. Corporate legal departments need to prioritize, and spend their limited budget where they think it will be most useful, and usually that means trying to enforce whatever they want to achieve by other means, like threats. MOL publicly boasts about how little he pays his in house lawyers, and how cheap they are, so I doubt he has given them an unlimited budget to play with.
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There's a big difference between saying you didn't like the lobster (opinion based on fact) and saying you think the chef was trying to poison you (unsubstantiated statement based on previous opinion).
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Yes, but restaurant and film critics write within a specific guideline of libel law that permits it. There's a big difference between saying you didn't like the lobster (opinion based on fact) and saying you think the chef was trying to poison you (unsubstantiated statement based on previous opinion).
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Ryanair have in the past posted priveat and confidential documents from DAA (i believe) and others on their own website to support a cause. P&C should mean what it says.
Anyone watching Starbucks deal with its perceived corporation tax issue should consider how a brand image can be changed in the eyes of the consumer for good or for bad.
I come from the school of thought that the seemingly confrontational approach adopted by senior management at Ryanair has had its day. It worked but I strongly believe they could achieve so much more if this apparent culture changed to be firmly customer focused.
Anyone watching Starbucks deal with its perceived corporation tax issue should consider how a brand image can be changed in the eyes of the consumer for good or for bad.
I come from the school of thought that the seemingly confrontational approach adopted by senior management at Ryanair has had its day. It worked but I strongly believe they could achieve so much more if this apparent culture changed to be firmly customer focused.
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I finally took the time to read the emails from Ryanair, now that they're published in full. The don't seem completely unreasonable (It may be a bit counterproductive to demand apologies from avherald though):
News: The Aviation Herald under legal threat by Ryanair
All this seems blown out of proportion. I don't think safety culture or freedom of press will be seriously harmed if the cited comments are deleted. I don't think said comments contained a lot of valuable and/or new and unique information.
But Ryanair may have contributed to blow this out of proportion, with their legalese and somewhat confrontational emails. I am not a lawyer and I have no idea whether these comments could be construed as defamatory, under whatever law. Fact is, Ryanair does have an excellent safety track record. They could as well just have ignored these comments, if they wanted to avoid drawing attention to them. It's hardly surprising that a media outlet will publish letters sent to them, particularly if the letters may be perceived as threatening. And the more "private and confidential" stamps there are on them, the more likely they will be published. Ryanair could have anticipated that. I don't think there's much for Ryanair to win here.
sometimes legal action to delete allegedly defamatory statements, or otherwise (allegedly) infringing content, has the opposite effect. it just draws further attention to the issue.
I had never heard of untied.com, the "united" critisism site which has been up and running for 15 years, until united/continental filed a lawsuit against the maintainer of the website (a McGill University engineering professor): United Airlines attacks Untied.com
then again, ryanair hired a "litigation specialist". and now that person probably wants to justify his/her salary.
News: The Aviation Herald under legal threat by Ryanair
All this seems blown out of proportion. I don't think safety culture or freedom of press will be seriously harmed if the cited comments are deleted. I don't think said comments contained a lot of valuable and/or new and unique information.
But Ryanair may have contributed to blow this out of proportion, with their legalese and somewhat confrontational emails. I am not a lawyer and I have no idea whether these comments could be construed as defamatory, under whatever law. Fact is, Ryanair does have an excellent safety track record. They could as well just have ignored these comments, if they wanted to avoid drawing attention to them. It's hardly surprising that a media outlet will publish letters sent to them, particularly if the letters may be perceived as threatening. And the more "private and confidential" stamps there are on them, the more likely they will be published. Ryanair could have anticipated that. I don't think there's much for Ryanair to win here.
sometimes legal action to delete allegedly defamatory statements, or otherwise (allegedly) infringing content, has the opposite effect. it just draws further attention to the issue.
I had never heard of untied.com, the "united" critisism site which has been up and running for 15 years, until united/continental filed a lawsuit against the maintainer of the website (a McGill University engineering professor): United Airlines attacks Untied.com
then again, ryanair hired a "litigation specialist". and now that person probably wants to justify his/her salary.
Last edited by deptrai; 7th Dec 2012 at 13:25.
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If you're challenged with a legal letter, the procedure is very simple: You don't antagonise the complainant further. You don't get on your high horse and assume you're right. You show goodwill, perhaps go as far as to remove the article until you've run it past your own legal team. When you're satisfied that you haven't blundered, then publish away and tell the lawyers to get back in their box.
Yes the website as publisher is responsible for anything posted there but during the past year alone how many people have been up in court for stuff posted on facebook or Twitter in the UK alone? And in how many of those cases has facebook or Twitter themselves been up in court?
None!
Because any legal team given a choice between suing an individual in the UK or a multi-billion dollar corporation based in the US will always go for the little guy. Now AVHerald doesn't have the resources of Twitter or facebook but if it is confident of the integrity of what it has published it should not be bullied into backing down because of what a particular subscriber may or may not have posted.
As has been posted a couple of times on this thread, RYR are not going to go bust because of one post on one forum. If it ever did come to court, damages to RYR would be estimated as pence rather than hundreds of pounds.
SoS
Oh and can a mod explain why if I type T w i t t e r it is posted as PPrune?
Last edited by Speed of Sound; 7th Dec 2012 at 12:55.
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I am a pPrune member, because I have a password and account, right?
When I post here, I assume that I am member of a private club. And so, the opinions that I write here, and those that I read, are of a private nature, like those said and heard in the pub.
Absolutely no one has the right to do anything legal against those opinions, or the website. In the pub, in the club, in the forum I am a member of, I can say what ever I want. Only the other members of the club can censor me, or just put me out of it.
However law is not always right and it goes against rights, often. Remember that middle east airline we cannot mention.
The Avherald however has no membership. But how can people's opinions written in the web be subject to any liability? they are opinions. I can have any opinion and nobody can do anything about it.
When I post here, I assume that I am member of a private club. And so, the opinions that I write here, and those that I read, are of a private nature, like those said and heard in the pub.
Absolutely no one has the right to do anything legal against those opinions, or the website. In the pub, in the club, in the forum I am a member of, I can say what ever I want. Only the other members of the club can censor me, or just put me out of it.
However law is not always right and it goes against rights, often. Remember that middle east airline we cannot mention.
The Avherald however has no membership. But how can people's opinions written in the web be subject to any liability? they are opinions. I can have any opinion and nobody can do anything about it.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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I assume that I am member of a private club. And so, the opinions that I write here, and those that I read, are of a private nature
Thus your utterances are effectively 'public'.
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Originally Posted by Microburst2002
I am a pPrune member, because I have a password and account, right?
When I post here, I assume that I am member of a private club. And so, the opinions that I write here, and those that I read, are of a private nature, like those said and heard in the pub.
Absolutely no one has the right to do anything legal against those opinions, or the website. In the pub, in the club, in the forum I am a member of, I can say what ever I want. Only the other members of the club can censor me, or just put me out of it.
However law is not always right and it goes against rights, often. Remember that middle east airline we cannot mention.
The Avherald however has no membership. But how can people's opinions written in the web be subject to any liability? they are opinions. I can have any opinion and nobody can do anything about it.
When I post here, I assume that I am member of a private club. And so, the opinions that I write here, and those that I read, are of a private nature, like those said and heard in the pub.
Absolutely no one has the right to do anything legal against those opinions, or the website. In the pub, in the club, in the forum I am a member of, I can say what ever I want. Only the other members of the club can censor me, or just put me out of it.
However law is not always right and it goes against rights, often. Remember that middle east airline we cannot mention.
The Avherald however has no membership. But how can people's opinions written in the web be subject to any liability? they are opinions. I can have any opinion and nobody can do anything about it.
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I can have any opinion and nobody can do anything about it.