A Sukhoi superjet 100 is missing
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Henra:
Those coordinates are out in the ocean.
Food for discussion:
In a German aviation forum there is a discussion ongoing rgarding the impact location and flight path.
The conclusion at the monent is that the approximate crash site is at
6,7°S (6° 42' 20'') and 106,73E (106° 43' 30''). Flight direction 210 ° up a canyon.
In a German aviation forum there is a discussion ongoing rgarding the impact location and flight path.
The conclusion at the monent is that the approximate crash site is at
6,7°S (6° 42' 20'') and 106,73E (106° 43' 30''). Flight direction 210 ° up a canyon.
The original ones were in a neighbour canyon IIRC.
(The latest ones of Sergei Dolya are on the outside flange of the canyon ridge, so close but not quite exact)
Moreover the heading is significantly different from what was 'out in the ocean'.
It looks a lot like they flew 'up the canyon'. (Posts #117, 118, 120 in the German forum).
(The latest ones of Sergei Dolya are on the outside flange of the canyon ridge, so close but not quite exact)
Moreover the heading is significantly different from what was 'out in the ocean'.
It looks a lot like they flew 'up the canyon'. (Posts #117, 118, 120 in the German forum).
Last edited by henra; 13th May 2012 at 14:02.
Henra - did you have to register to access the images? Clicking on them just brings up a registration page in German.
Flying up the canyon which is more or less north-south oriented and open to the north, (narrowing towards the south) was the first location suggested near the beginning of the thread and from recent communications may be the site. There are two sites which can look like the photographs - the one from the west > east, and the one up the valley - with (obviously) different peaks in the background.
It's still a puzzle...
Flying up the canyon which is more or less north-south oriented and open to the north, (narrowing towards the south) was the first location suggested near the beginning of the thread and from recent communications may be the site. There are two sites which can look like the photographs - the one from the west > east, and the one up the valley - with (obviously) different peaks in the background.
It's still a puzzle...
The key answer will be, what the crew caused to request descent to lower altitude.
As long as there is no answer that makes sense the flightpath along the canyon is one of few possibilities.
As long as there is no answer that makes sense the flightpath along the canyon is one of few possibilities.
Sorry about that.
Problem is on this site I cannot upload them, only Link.
i don't have a Server where I could put them.
There are two sites which can look like the photographs - the one from the west > east, and the one up the valley - with (obviously) different peaks in the background.
Basically when you're flying up the canyon it is at the end on the right side, the images can be replicated fascinatingly well if you turn to a heading of approx. 250° when in front of the crash site looking through the lowest part of the right ridge of the canyon. Matches also with the two peaks in the next valley which can be seen in the video.
Next try:
Bild: crash_site_3ezkq3.jpg - abload.de
Bild: crash_site_2agfp4.jpg - abload.de
Bild: crash_site_4urd0n.jpg - abload.de
and
Bild: crash_site_56lkl6.jpg - abload.de
especially if you compare the latter one to the video (about the half time) you will see that the peak in the next valley seams to match quite well.
Last edited by henra; 13th May 2012 at 16:46.
however there is no other reasonable way of getting to the crash site other than flying up the canyon.
The walls left and right down the canyon are higher than the impact location. So they would have to be in a dramatic descent immediately prior to the crash in order to get there without flying up the canyon.
Try 'flying up the canyon' yourself in Google Earth and you will see what I mean.
Last edited by henra; 13th May 2012 at 15:25.
RetiredF4;
Yes. The request could have been for sight-seeing or for the descent/approach to Halim, 32nm north. The two possibilities that roughly fit with the available photographs & videos are the flight paths into the west-southwest canyon or the north-northeast canyon.
The key answer will be, what the crew caused to request descent to lower altitude.
Thanks for trying Henra - no, it just brings up the registration page and I don't read enough German to get the registration right. I'm sure they'll show up at some point. Your point regarding flying up the canyon is, I think, spot on. The crash site didn't look as though the impact was at an oblique angle, it looked head-on, though some here did mention that it "looked oblique".
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Thanks. I saw them earlier too, you didn't do anything wrong. I registered and saw them and i don't speak German.
Maybe PJ2 doesn't have Google Translate where he lives.
Maybe PJ2 doesn't have Google Translate where he lives.
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save the url of the german page, open translate.google.com, paste the german url in the left pane, perhaps click German->English (tho it will usually figure it out), click translate.
Thanks Henra, worked that time - much appreciated. Yes, that's the location I considered early on but began looking for a "head-on" impact site that fit the rest of the scene - I'm sure we'll find out soon enough.
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"FDR Recovered ?"
From The Jakarta Post Sunday 8am - Sukhoi
An investigation team from the National Transportation Safety Committee (KNKT) has retrieved the flight-data recorder of the Russian-made Sukhoi Superjet 100 that crashed on Mt. Salak in West Java earlier this week.
Although it will take some time before information from the flight data recorder, also known as “the black box”, can be accessed for the purpose of the investigation, the information will be crucial to ascertain what really happened to the Russian passenger plane on its fateful flight.
“Based on the latest information that we received, the investigation team has retrieved the black box,” National Search and Rescue Agency (Basarnas) spokesperson Gagah Prakoso told reporters on Saturday.
The Transportation Ministry’s air transportation director general Herry Bhakti Gumay, however, refused to confirm whether the KNKT already possessed the black box.
Herry, however, said once the KNKT had hold of the black box, the agency would analyze it in the country.
“The box will be analyzed here because it is we who are in charge of the rescue effort and also because it took place in Indonesia,” he told The Jakarta Post by phone on Saturday. “If we are able to analyze it by ourselves, then we will do it on our own.”
Herry said Indonesia had the technology to read data from the flight data recorders and equipment for undertaking the job, which is available at the KNKT’s office in Jakarta.
Earlier, Transportation Minister E.E. Mangindaan was quoted by Antara as saying the investigation of the crash would be led by an Indonesia team and the 78 Russian experts would provide assistance in the investigation.
Russian Ambassador to Indonesia, Alexander A. Ivanov, also confirmed the plane’s black box would be analyzed in Indonesia.
Information from the flight data recorder is expected to be checked against data from the Air Traffic Controller at the Soekarno-Hatta International Airport.
Members of the rescue team on Saturday transported 16 body bags with remains of the victims of the Sukhoi accident from the crash site to the Halim Perdanakusuma Airport in East Jakarta.
Helicopters from the Basarnas carried the body bags before they were transferred to the Raden Said Sukanto National Police Hospital in Kramat Jati, East Jakarta, for identification.
The government has set up six teams to identify the victims, comprising 60 experts in forensic medicine, fingerprint identification and DNA analysis, among others.
Members of the teams also include experts from Gadjah Mada University (UGM) in Yogyakarta, Airlangga University in Surabaya, East Java and the University of Indonesia in Jakarta, who were brought in to help identify the victims, whose remains had begun to decompose after three days.
Personal items found at the crash site were also taken to the hospital to aid identification.
Rescue workers, who started their search early at 6:30 a.m., ended their efforts at 4:45 p.m. on Saturday due to bad weather conditions. Members of the rescue team plan to continue the search at 6 a.m. on Sunday at areas of much more difficult terrain around the wreckage site.
The regional jet with 45 people onboard disappeared from radar screens at 2:33 p.m. on Wednesday before debris was found at about 9:15 a.m. on Thursday at about 5,800 feet on Mt. Salak’s slopes.
The aircraft, which intended to enjoy an afternoon flight, took off at 2:12 p.m. from Halim Perdanakusuma Airport, planning to head south to Pelabuhan Ratu in Sukabumi, West Java, before returning to Halim.
Lawmaker from the United Development Party (PPP) on the House of Representatives Commission V overseeing transportation Arwani Thomafi said the House would summon the transportation minister for a response regarding the incident.
Arwani said the country’s national transportation system also needed a major overhaul following the crash.
Separately, aviation observers Samudra Sukardi said that airports in the country needed to update their equipment to be able to handle new types of aircrafts, such as the ill-fated Sukhoi Superjet 100. (asa)
Although it will take some time before information from the flight data recorder, also known as “the black box”, can be accessed for the purpose of the investigation, the information will be crucial to ascertain what really happened to the Russian passenger plane on its fateful flight.
“Based on the latest information that we received, the investigation team has retrieved the black box,” National Search and Rescue Agency (Basarnas) spokesperson Gagah Prakoso told reporters on Saturday.
The Transportation Ministry’s air transportation director general Herry Bhakti Gumay, however, refused to confirm whether the KNKT already possessed the black box.
Herry, however, said once the KNKT had hold of the black box, the agency would analyze it in the country.
“The box will be analyzed here because it is we who are in charge of the rescue effort and also because it took place in Indonesia,” he told The Jakarta Post by phone on Saturday. “If we are able to analyze it by ourselves, then we will do it on our own.”
Herry said Indonesia had the technology to read data from the flight data recorders and equipment for undertaking the job, which is available at the KNKT’s office in Jakarta.
Earlier, Transportation Minister E.E. Mangindaan was quoted by Antara as saying the investigation of the crash would be led by an Indonesia team and the 78 Russian experts would provide assistance in the investigation.
Russian Ambassador to Indonesia, Alexander A. Ivanov, also confirmed the plane’s black box would be analyzed in Indonesia.
Information from the flight data recorder is expected to be checked against data from the Air Traffic Controller at the Soekarno-Hatta International Airport.
Members of the rescue team on Saturday transported 16 body bags with remains of the victims of the Sukhoi accident from the crash site to the Halim Perdanakusuma Airport in East Jakarta.
Helicopters from the Basarnas carried the body bags before they were transferred to the Raden Said Sukanto National Police Hospital in Kramat Jati, East Jakarta, for identification.
The government has set up six teams to identify the victims, comprising 60 experts in forensic medicine, fingerprint identification and DNA analysis, among others.
Members of the teams also include experts from Gadjah Mada University (UGM) in Yogyakarta, Airlangga University in Surabaya, East Java and the University of Indonesia in Jakarta, who were brought in to help identify the victims, whose remains had begun to decompose after three days.
Personal items found at the crash site were also taken to the hospital to aid identification.
Rescue workers, who started their search early at 6:30 a.m., ended their efforts at 4:45 p.m. on Saturday due to bad weather conditions. Members of the rescue team plan to continue the search at 6 a.m. on Sunday at areas of much more difficult terrain around the wreckage site.
The regional jet with 45 people onboard disappeared from radar screens at 2:33 p.m. on Wednesday before debris was found at about 9:15 a.m. on Thursday at about 5,800 feet on Mt. Salak’s slopes.
The aircraft, which intended to enjoy an afternoon flight, took off at 2:12 p.m. from Halim Perdanakusuma Airport, planning to head south to Pelabuhan Ratu in Sukabumi, West Java, before returning to Halim.
Lawmaker from the United Development Party (PPP) on the House of Representatives Commission V overseeing transportation Arwani Thomafi said the House would summon the transportation minister for a response regarding the incident.
Arwani said the country’s national transportation system also needed a major overhaul following the crash.
Separately, aviation observers Samudra Sukardi said that airports in the country needed to update their equipment to be able to handle new types of aircrafts, such as the ill-fated Sukhoi Superjet 100. (asa)
Last edited by aseanaero; 13th May 2012 at 17:26.
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They have the raw data in 5 minutes from the box, I'll expect they will redact out anything that clearly spells out what really happened.
Pretty clear to me they hit fast...you would think Ground Prox would have been going crazy in the area, pilots either didn't have it working, turned it off, or didn't have the current database. A screw up either way.
Most demonstration flights are about performance 'look what it will do'...for all we know they were testing some performance limitation, screwed up...couldn't recover fast enough. Wouldn't surprise if the were testing the ground prox.
Pretty clear to me they hit fast...you would think Ground Prox would have been going crazy in the area, pilots either didn't have it working, turned it off, or didn't have the current database. A screw up either way.
Most demonstration flights are about performance 'look what it will do'...for all we know they were testing some performance limitation, screwed up...couldn't recover fast enough. Wouldn't surprise if the were testing the ground prox.
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Swiss Cheese:
Without speculating on the present case, I offer the observation that every new safety device/procedure/regulation tends to instill more confidence, and perhaps complacency. I make this observation not only for the realm of aviation, but for maritime navigation, financial "reform", and a myriad of other fields.
The Sukhoi SJ100 has T2CAS fitted, which allegedly offers greater protection to CFIT.
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There is one and only one question in this case. Why would any pilot request clearance to below the known peak altitudes of stratocone volcanoes in conditions in which those peaks cannot be seen?
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The Russian photographer who took the cockpit picture apparently showing TAWS to be 'off' says the image has been taken out of context.
It was taken during a photoshoot of the cockpit start-up sequence not long after the power-on button was pushed. Once all the systems had kicked in, he says, the TAWS was 'on'.
It was taken during a photoshoot of the cockpit start-up sequence not long after the power-on button was pushed. Once all the systems had kicked in, he says, the TAWS was 'on'.
Last edited by JungleBus; 14th May 2012 at 02:29.
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New Regulations
One could add medicine as well....those of us practicing in the US have seen our paperwork double or triple in the last year chasing down dubious bits of data to satifsy the bureauocrats...