A Sukhoi superjet 100 is missing
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"All these differences are superficial. The cause of that crash was specifically found to be the reprogramming of the flight computers by management @ 1 AM the morning before the crash and then never informing the flight crew."
You're absolutely right, of course, and it's so dismaying that this thread has so quickly descended to the stupidest level of uninformed speculation. I realize that this is a "rumo[u]r network," but when the comments become little different than those posted by nonpilots on U.S. aggregator sites such as Daily Beast and Huffington Post, I wonder why I bother to keep coming back here.
You're absolutely right, of course, and it's so dismaying that this thread has so quickly descended to the stupidest level of uninformed speculation. I realize that this is a "rumo[u]r network," but when the comments become little different than those posted by nonpilots on U.S. aggregator sites such as Daily Beast and Huffington Post, I wonder why I bother to keep coming back here.
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Mis/disinformation.
Separate the wheat from the chaff my friend. I have learned more about CRM, logical and professional behavior on this forum that I have ever expected. Many thoughtful and professional individuals contribute. Please be patient !
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we'll know soon enough once the black box is deciphered. The pilots were experienced in flying in mountainous terrain, that much I do know. While not being on a friendship level that includes daily chats, I did know them well enough. They flew in mountainous terrain throughout Central Asia and had been in and out of Pakistan many times with this aircraft as well as other types.
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Hmm...
Team finds body parts of plane crash victims, identifies one | The Jakarta Post
The team, he said, also found many ATM and citizenship cards spread in the vicinity, and a plane seat with a parachute attached to it.
The team, he said, also found many ATM and citizenship cards spread in the vicinity, and a plane seat with a parachute attached to it.
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Black boxes yet to be found.
Accident looks horrific, body parts are about not bodys. On Av Herald there's a picture of a laptop on the floor. Makes you think how horrible it is to be the rescue worker there.
Accident looks horrific, body parts are about not bodys. On Av Herald there's a picture of a laptop on the floor. Makes you think how horrible it is to be the rescue worker there.
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Airplaneski! A documentary on the fall of Aeroflot and Soviet Aviation
This is a really great documentary, showing what happened to the mighty Soviet Aeroflot after 1991. It had broken into 400 smaller airlines, each with little money and struggles. Indeed, all of Russia was plunged into chaos after the USSR collapsed. This documentary has a fascinating first hand account and story from pilots, passengers, flight attendants and airport staff.
Airplaneski! A documentary on the fall of Aeroflot and Soviet Aviation Part 1 - YouTube
Airplaneski! A documentary on the fall of Aeroflot and Soviet Aviation Part 2 - YouTube
Airplaneski! A documentary on the fall of Aeroflot and Soviet Aviation Part 3 - YouTube
Airplaneski! A documentary on the fall of Aeroflot and Soviet Aviation Part 4 - YouTube
Airplaneski! A documentary on the fall of Aeroflot and Soviet Aviation Part 5 - YouTube
Airplaneski! A documentary on the fall of Aeroflot and Soviet Aviation Part 1 - YouTube
Airplaneski! A documentary on the fall of Aeroflot and Soviet Aviation Part 2 - YouTube
Airplaneski! A documentary on the fall of Aeroflot and Soviet Aviation Part 3 - YouTube
Airplaneski! A documentary on the fall of Aeroflot and Soviet Aviation Part 4 - YouTube
Airplaneski! A documentary on the fall of Aeroflot and Soviet Aviation Part 5 - YouTube
One thing that puzzles me in the drawn flight paths is the direction.
Looking at the direction of the sunlight in the pics of the crash site I conclude the direction of travel must have been roughly S -> N, maybe SE -> NW.
In the background of the pics you see another mountain's peak. So the W -> E travel hitting the last mountain range prior to Cijeruk does not really seem to match. Anyone else share my scepticism ?
Looking at the direction of the sunlight in the pics of the crash site I conclude the direction of travel must have been roughly S -> N, maybe SE -> NW.
In the background of the pics you see another mountain's peak. So the W -> E travel hitting the last mountain range prior to Cijeruk does not really seem to match. Anyone else share my scepticism ?
Last edited by henra; 12th May 2012 at 11:28.
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On a video here:
First footage of Sukhoi Superjet 100 crash site in Indonesia - YouTube
..one sees the impression of the starboard wing and engine in the side of the cliff, and the port wing missing its engine a bit forward and below it some 10s of meters. So that gives direct information about the direction of travel.
The violence of the impact seems to have triggered the landslide, with implication that much of the wreckage will be intermingled with all that.
First footage of Sukhoi Superjet 100 crash site in Indonesia - YouTube
..one sees the impression of the starboard wing and engine in the side of the cliff, and the port wing missing its engine a bit forward and below it some 10s of meters. So that gives direct information about the direction of travel.
The violence of the impact seems to have triggered the landslide, with implication that much of the wreckage will be intermingled with all that.
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German Magazin SPIEGEL is talking about previous "joy flights" and about possible sight seeing around an airforce base.
Superjet-Absturz in Indonesien: Crash-Pilot wollte Militärbasis zeigen - SPIEGEL ONLINE
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Not a job I would like to do for sure. Dangerous work in inhospitable terrain. And gruesome. When the Ci A300-600 crashed at TPE airport , hundreds of soldiers were sent in to collect the body parts. Many of them expressed the horror of the job and one later committed suicide.
Henra;
Yes. Still puzzling in Google Earth. I had suggested a site early in the thread which would have had the aircraft traveling south-eastbound up the blind canyon but I removed it as newer information became available. However...
First, the "exact" location given in the map posted on Sergei Dolya's images from yesterday, can't possibly be the site because 6.42.36.78S, 106.44.41.20E is on the east side of a ridge in a relatively flat area.
First, it would mean that the aircraft was on the east side of Mt. Salak, on a west-bound course. The ridge in the foreground as well as the ridge in the background roughly fit the profiles seen in the photographs however, but so do the profiles in the approach east-bound from the west, to the saddle and ridge.
Next, yesterday's video from the helicopter helps a bit but the quality of the images is poor. That said, I am assuming that the ridge in the photograph of the accident site is the one to the west of the mountain face seen in the same photograph. It is a bit confusing still...
The inaccuracies and confusion as to the actual site I think boil down to data inaccuracies emanating from in-situ / base communications, the circumstances surrounding the accident and difficulty in accessing the crash site - the confusion surrounding the original layout of the accident site hasn't been resolved either but I think we can safely assume that there is only one site and that is the one in the available photographs and that "large parts" are the vertical and possibly one horizontal stabilizer.
In Google Earth there is a saddle between two peaks, with a peak in the background that can be flown up a valley on roughly a 070 - 075(M) course; (one consideration is that they were on a course to intercept R209 while they were "touring" Mt. Salak), and the crash location given, (in dms, 6.42.36.78S, 106.44.41.20E ) is too far to the NE and is actually over a ridge, on the east side. The site at 6°42'39.62"S, 106°44'2.15"E looks more plausible, and much more like the images we've seen from the helicopter and the various still photographs.
The red line overhead is one of the approach airways for Halim Airport - R206, which is the 195R, HLM.
One thing I've puzzled over as well is, the mountain on the other side of the saddle - the one we see in all images. Had they cleared the saddle, would it have been a CFIT on that mountain instead? Depending upon how fast the aircraft was travelling, (we can assume between 200kts and 250kts), even with a steep bank angle, the room available for the slow turning rate may not be sufficient to have cleared that mountain either. It's less than 0.5NM from the saddle to the mountain in the distance, (if this view and location is correct!).
One thing that puzzles me in the drawn flight paths is the direction.
Looking at the direction of the sunlight in the pics of the crash site I conclude the direction of travel must have been roughly S -> N, maybe SE -> NW.
In the background of the pics you see another mountain's peak. So the W -> E travel hitting the last mountain range prior to Cijeruk does not really seem to match. Anyone else share my scepticism ?
Looking at the direction of the sunlight in the pics of the crash site I conclude the direction of travel must have been roughly S -> N, maybe SE -> NW.
In the background of the pics you see another mountain's peak. So the W -> E travel hitting the last mountain range prior to Cijeruk does not really seem to match. Anyone else share my scepticism ?
First, the "exact" location given in the map posted on Sergei Dolya's images from yesterday, can't possibly be the site because 6.42.36.78S, 106.44.41.20E is on the east side of a ridge in a relatively flat area.
First, it would mean that the aircraft was on the east side of Mt. Salak, on a west-bound course. The ridge in the foreground as well as the ridge in the background roughly fit the profiles seen in the photographs however, but so do the profiles in the approach east-bound from the west, to the saddle and ridge.
Next, yesterday's video from the helicopter helps a bit but the quality of the images is poor. That said, I am assuming that the ridge in the photograph of the accident site is the one to the west of the mountain face seen in the same photograph. It is a bit confusing still...
The inaccuracies and confusion as to the actual site I think boil down to data inaccuracies emanating from in-situ / base communications, the circumstances surrounding the accident and difficulty in accessing the crash site - the confusion surrounding the original layout of the accident site hasn't been resolved either but I think we can safely assume that there is only one site and that is the one in the available photographs and that "large parts" are the vertical and possibly one horizontal stabilizer.
In Google Earth there is a saddle between two peaks, with a peak in the background that can be flown up a valley on roughly a 070 - 075(M) course; (one consideration is that they were on a course to intercept R209 while they were "touring" Mt. Salak), and the crash location given, (in dms, 6.42.36.78S, 106.44.41.20E ) is too far to the NE and is actually over a ridge, on the east side. The site at 6°42'39.62"S, 106°44'2.15"E looks more plausible, and much more like the images we've seen from the helicopter and the various still photographs.
The red line overhead is one of the approach airways for Halim Airport - R206, which is the 195R, HLM.
One thing I've puzzled over as well is, the mountain on the other side of the saddle - the one we see in all images. Had they cleared the saddle, would it have been a CFIT on that mountain instead? Depending upon how fast the aircraft was travelling, (we can assume between 200kts and 250kts), even with a steep bank angle, the room available for the slow turning rate may not be sufficient to have cleared that mountain either. It's less than 0.5NM from the saddle to the mountain in the distance, (if this view and location is correct!).
Last edited by PJ2; 12th May 2012 at 17:52.
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Press commentary on this incident being a setback for Russian Aviation
Plane or Pilot ? "The battle to fend off negative perceptions will be difficult".
Orders said to still be proceeding with 2 Indonesian airlines though.
More here with links...... Jet crash a setback for Russian aviation: The Seattle Times « The Airport Informer
Orders said to still be proceeding with 2 Indonesian airlines though.
More here with links...... Jet crash a setback for Russian aviation: The Seattle Times « The Airport Informer
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RA-97004 arrives at Halim/Jakarta (WIHH) + one of the demonstration flights lands uneventfully + T/O for another demo....
Last edited by Antek22QR; 13th May 2012 at 03:18.
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Pilot's Suspected Remains Found 5 km from Crash Site
According to MNC News broadcasting from Jakarta, the pilot's body with "parachute strings" was found at Curug Nangka (as small waterfall on the Ciomas, Bogor - NORTH side of the mountain!!!) Can someone explain about the Sukhoi's safety systems? Is there a facility for pilot emergency ejection??? Why would a passenger aircraft's pilot be equipped with a parachute otherwise? Why would the pilot's body be intact enough to identify some 5 km from the crash site? Of course, knowing what most soldiers are like in Indonesia and especially the rough, unprofessional Kopassus, they may have misidentified something here but they certainly couldn't have made a mistake identifying a BULE (that's a whitey) in a pilot's flight suit.
Thanks
Thanks
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Seems like the black box has not yet been found...
Teams scour ravine for plane's Sukhoi black box | The Jakarta Post
Teams scour ravine for plane's Sukhoi black box | The Jakarta Post
Paxing All Over The World
infrequent flyer This aircraft was there for a demonstration and MAY not have been a full production machine - I do not know. As you will have seen already, papers/TV have to say something it does not matter to them if 1 minute later it turns out to be rubbish. They do not make money by saying, "This is terrible, let's wait for the report"
Food for discussion:
In a German aviation forum there is a discussion ongoing rgarding the impact location and flight path.
The conclusion at the monent is that the approximate crash site is at
6,7°S (6° 42' 50'') and 106,73E (106° 43' 30''). Flight direction 210 ° up a canyon.
See images in thread (Text is in German, but the pics speek for themselves):
Sukhoi Superjet 100-Absturz in Indonesien - Seite 6
If linking to a German aviation forum is not OK, I'll remove the link.
regards,
Henra
In a German aviation forum there is a discussion ongoing rgarding the impact location and flight path.
The conclusion at the monent is that the approximate crash site is at
6,7°S (6° 42' 50'') and 106,73E (106° 43' 30''). Flight direction 210 ° up a canyon.
See images in thread (Text is in German, but the pics speek for themselves):
Sukhoi Superjet 100-Absturz in Indonesien - Seite 6
If linking to a German aviation forum is not OK, I'll remove the link.
regards,
Henra
Last edited by henra; 13th May 2012 at 13:57.
