PPRuNe Forums

Go Back   PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Forgotten your Username/Password?

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 4th Apr 2012, 15:29   #181 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 319
Oh come on. Regardless of WHY he did what he did, you can't vaguely threaten a flying airliner when you are its captain, and expect to not have a rough go of it. Petty criminals are treated much worse in our local jails. Particularly the lower albedo ones.

-drl
deSitter is offline   Reply
Old 4th Apr 2012, 16:10   #182 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: us
Posts: 675
Daz, the nearest Federal Medical Center is in Ft. Worth Texas. However, it houses only female inmates. Possibly the closest Federal facility for males in custody would be at Rochester Minnesota, near the famous Mayo Clinic. But if he were transferred to Minnesota, the Federal courts in that state would not have jurisdiction as the crime(s) Osbon is charged with did not occur in/over Minnesota.

The Federal government very often lodges those in custody, after an arrest and before/during trial, in state or local government jails. Robert Reid, the 'shoebomber' was kept at the Plymouth County jail in Massachusetts before his trial. However, once convicted and sentenced, an individual, with few exceptions, is lodged at a Federal prison. All the necessary psychiatric and medical evaluations can readily be done at these state and local facilities.
SaturnV is offline   Reply
Old 4th Apr 2012, 18:12   #183 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Grassy Valley
Posts: 2,122
SaturnV

I think Federal Jurisdiction is "Mobile". It carries State to State. The bottom line in today's Law, is the separate Branches of the federal Government are not on the same page.

Our President, whose Department of Justice is the authority in Federally charged crimes, has told the Supreme Court to "Long walk/Short pier". The Appeals Court has stabbed back; Our entire system of Authority is in erm.....flux.

I haven't seen evidence the Government is doing what it can't, only what it 'should not' expressed in settled Law and expectations.

Captain Osbon 'chose' an inopportune time to act as he did. I am also aware of a Drunken Captain who was severely punished for his escapades, to reacquire licensure and a new and respectful reputation in his airline. This too shall pass.

Sometimes one has to wait, to see, to understand, different problems. The FED is in limits, imho. I don't like it; but that is a separate issue?
Lyman is offline   Reply
Old 4th Apr 2012, 18:21   #184 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ct. USA
Posts: 17
I hope I'm not alone here, but I'm embarrassed to be a US citizen when I read that the captain was brought in shackles to court.
gcap is offline   Reply
Old 4th Apr 2012, 18:29   #185 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 319
You are just now noticing this awful wretched fact? What about all the poor black people who are rousted for the most trivial crimes (e.g. loitering) brought before the judge in jail togs and manacled hand and foot? I guess that is OK by you because they are not airline captains. Yes, it is horrible - you can blame the "justo-tainment" industry (Nancy Grace, Judge Judy and other monsters), right-wing "law and order" types who understand neither law nor order, well, I could go on for hours. The justice system is horribly broken - and who broke it? Look in the mirror. WE did.

-drl
deSitter is offline   Reply
Old 4th Apr 2012, 18:35   #186 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Germany
Age: 66
Posts: 1,631
It's S.O.P.

Restraints are used for the protection of both the accused and the cops. It's the same way that the cuffs go on when you get a ride in the cop car.

This guy flipped out once, and he's a big guy, a 250-pounder according to what I read. It's a lot simpler to have him already restrained, compared to having to wrassle him down and hog-tie him, if he loses it under the stress of his circumstances. You could just imagine how people would react if he were to injure someone or be injured himself after an unrestrained outburst similar the one he had on the aircraft.

I used to transport Federal prisoners occasionally in a small aircraft. Those guys were thoroughly restrained, and dosed with a tranquilizer, plus it was two guards to one prisoner. It was nothing personal, believe me!
chuks is offline   Reply
Old 4th Apr 2012, 18:40   #187 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: New York State
Age: 57
Posts: 417
gcap:

No, you're not alone in feeling embarrassed by the Captain's being brought before a court in shackles. It really is outrageous and cannot be justified.
rgbrock1 is offline   Reply
Old 4th Apr 2012, 18:59   #188 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: A Puddle
Age: 36
Posts: 76
Ahh yes, it can be justified. Chucks just told you why. Its a system of protection for all involved. If this chap flipped out at the court house while not restrained and hurt someone, ALL of you who are currently bemoaning the fact that he is in shackles would without doubt decry the justice system for being lax, or unprepared.
You just remember that.
I hope the Captain gets the mental help required and makes a speedy recovery.
AdamF is offline   Reply
Old 4th Apr 2012, 19:38   #189 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,156
EVERYONE goes before the Federal bench in shackles. Remember Tammy Bakker's mascara running when they brought Jim Bakker into court? As chuks says, it's SOP.
MarkerInbound is offline   Reply
Old 4th Apr 2012, 21:03   #190 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: fl
Posts: 2,499
Being an airline captain does not exempt you from following customary procedure to deal with violating US laws. Interfering with a crew member does not exempt the captain if he is interfering with the safe operation of an aircraft from getting the same treatment.

I hope he gets the help he needs but he can't expect special treatment because he was the captain that went out of control.
bubbers44 is offline   Reply
Old 4th Apr 2012, 22:03   #191 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: San Clemente, CA
Posts: 1,953
Official Charging Document:

http://www.taproot.com/wordpress/wp-...nComplaint.pdf
aterpster is offline   Reply
Old 4th Apr 2012, 23:55   #192 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: lapbandland
Posts: 184
Maybe just maybe
He had an argument with the F/O that caused the F/O to
get so angry that he locked him out of the cockpit, when
he went out to relieve himself.
Then, maybe just maybe, the Captain got so angry
about being locked out that he went berserk.
And, the captain is still berserk about it.
I WOULD BE
There are crazy F/O's out there too folks.
Just because the F/O decided the captain had lost it does'nt
mean its a fact.
An interesting case, which will be a great debating
topic in all areas of industry.
Are all your nuclear power workers stable ?
who makes the call ?
boofta is offline   Reply
Old 5th Apr 2012, 00:55   #193 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: San Clemente, CA
Posts: 1,953
bootfa:

Quote:
Maybe just maybe
He had an argument with the F/O that caused the F/O to
get so angry that he locked him out of the cockpit, when
he went out to relieve himself.
Then, maybe just maybe, the Captain got so angry
about being locked out that he went berserk.
I believe the NTSB got control of the DCVR, which is probably a two hour recording, at least.
aterpster is offline   Reply
Old 5th Apr 2012, 03:58   #194 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 64
Looks like Osbon's problem may not be temporary. A judge ordered a psych exam today (Wednesday):

Quote:
There is reason to believe Osbon "may presently be suffering from a mental disease or defect rendering him mentally incompetent" to understand the case against him and assist in his defense, the U.S. Attorney's Office said in a Texas court filing.
Judge orders psychiatric exam for JetBlue pilot - CNN.com
ST27 is offline   Reply
Old 5th Apr 2012, 04:29   #195 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Not far from a Great Lake
Age: 72
Posts: 1,092
Probably a small point, but if Capt Osbon was initially responsible for the aircraft as aircraft commander as it departed, was he ever formally relieved of his duties (other than by being overpowered)? If not, it would be understandable that he would react physically to the unexplained (to him) assault on his person and the usurping of his authority. This would weaken the Federal case against him.

Granted, it appears completely necessary that he needed to be removed from command given his mental state, and it it would have been foolish for the copilot to personally address the Captain under the circumstances in that aircraft to formally relieve him. It is just that the legal case against him may be flawed by these events.
Machinbird is offline   Reply
Old 5th Apr 2012, 06:09   #196 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: fl
Posts: 2,499
On our planet we do what makes sense. The FO did what made sense to protect his passengers and crew.
bubbers44 is offline   Reply
Old 5th Apr 2012, 11:05   #197 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: us
Posts: 675
ST27, Osbon had been undergoing psychiatric evaluation at the Northwest Texas Hospital in Amarillo. It would seem the results of those hospital evaluations were sufficient to now transfer him into a Federal (Bureau of Prisons) medical center for a more extensive psychiatric evaluation. This suggests there was not an underlying neurological or physiological condition that suddenly precipitated his behavior, nor was the onset caused by his taking supplements to boost energy, lose weight, enhance performance, etc.

These initial psychiatric evaluations may also indicate he poses a continuing risk of harm to himself and/or others, and thus no release on bond.

A description of psychiatric evaluations done at the Federal medical center at Devens Massachusetts (outside of Boston) can be found here.

http://www.bop.gov/jobs/students/cpdipdev2.pdf

Look for sections on forensic evaluation.
SaturnV is offline   Reply
Old 5th Apr 2012, 13:28   #198 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: San Clemente, CA
Posts: 1,953
Machinbird:

Quote:
Probably a small point, but ifCapt Osbon was initially responsible for the aircraft as aircraft commander asit departed, was he ever formally relieved of his duties (other than by beingoverpowered)? If not, it would be understandable that he would react physicallyto the unexplained (to him) assault on his person and the usurping of hisauthority. This would weaken the Federal case against him.
Quote:

Granted, it appears completely necessary that he needed to be removed fromcommand given his mental state, and it it would have been foolish for thecopilot to personally address the Captain under the circumstances in thataircraft to formally relieve him. It is just that the legal case against himmay be flawed by these events.
Read the link I posted to the chargingdocument and affidavit supporting the charging. The F/O had no choice other than to do what he did. An incapacitated PIC can no longer act as PIC.
aterpster is offline   Reply
Old 5th Apr 2012, 13:40   #199 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Not far from a Great Lake
Age: 72
Posts: 1,092
Aterpster
Quote:
Read the link I posted to the charging document and affidavit supporting the charging. The F/O had no choice other than to do what he did. An incapacitated PIC can no longer act as PIC.
Please understand, I have no disagreement with the F/O's actions. Just that the government's legal case may be flawed, as in not enforceable.

Maritime law no doubt has set applicable legal precedents.
Machinbird is offline   Reply
Old 5th Apr 2012, 14:20   #200 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: San Clemente, CA
Posts: 1,953
"An incapacitated PIC can no longer act as PIC."
aterpster is offline   Reply
Reply
 
 
 


Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 09:07.


vBulletin® v3.8.7, Copyright ©2000-2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
1996-2012 The Professional Pilots Rumour Network