There seems to be an increasing tendency towards intolerance among these postings. Some people seem to forget that these forums are open to anybody with an interest in professional aviation, not just those of us who sit at the sharp end. That includes SLF, "wannabees" and anyone else who is "interested".
Lets try and act like the professionals that we are supposed to be, shall we? It might be worth bearing in mind that the Press monitor PPRuNe, and if they see us behaving like a bunch of unruly schoolkids, it does nothing for the image of the pilot community.
I could not agree more - these days I always reread a posting just before sending it ( especially if my "Uncle Jack" helped write it) and have sometimes scrapped the whole thing. Whilst I am thick skinned enough to take any amoumt of childish abuse, I would be upset if I thought I had caused offence.
Some of the caustic and/or witty comments are genuinely funny but there are limits.......
Hear hear - not being a pilot but being a concerned (and I like to feel enlightened) member of the Civil Aviation community I have begun to feel somewhat discouraged by the 'only pilots should be allowed to post' attitude I come across more frequently on the forums these days.
This may be a good spot to point out that this site was listed in today's Daily Telegraph Netwatch column, so it is likely that there will be a few new people viewing this site in the near future.
"Fancy chewing the fat on air? To prove to the dotcom world that the days of successful homespun websites are not yet over, the Professional Pilots Rumour Network clocks up a mightily impressive 10m page views each month. Set up to provide a place where lonesome long-distance pilots can chew the fat when visiting far-flung corners of the globe, the site features news, in-depth features on airline safety and some very busy and involved discussion forums. www.pprune.org
The problem with many non pilots using the site; (with the exception of those truly professional and much respected colleagues in Engineering and ATC) is that reasoned well thought out arguments/ debates are spoiled by "Walter Mitty" dreamers like "the Guvnor".
Funny how "knows" proves "chalky's" point! The real answer is to have those who wish to be taken seriously on this forum sign their real name to it instead of hiding behind callsigns. I will "out" if anyone else will!
[This message has been edited by Pete Otube (edited 31 May 2001).]
I must say that I resent your suggestion that it is only non-pilots who make irrelevant postings - we all have our areas of expertise, and when things move beyond technical and procedural concerns - as they frequently do - pilots are just as capable of making irrelevant, ill informed or 'walter mitty'esque postings
[This message has been edited by bobtoldmetodoit (edited 31 May 2001).]
As a PPL I try to restrict myself to the odd comment where I may have a valid view, but I do read the fora comprehensively and they really do help me think more professionally about the issues of flying - leading to a more professional approach in my own private flying. Recent examples include learning why setting mode Charlie helps professional pilots by avoiding TCAS alerts.
If there was a "PPrune" for management consultants (which sadly there is not) I would hope that I would be able to adopt the same spirit to all that your post promotes.
Im a mere PPL but really appreciate the whole forum.
It does astonish me how vitriolic the responses to posts can be sometimes. Surely everyone in aviation should atleast be civil and not tear each other apart - there are plenty of others out there to do that for us / you professional guys.
PeteOtube: fair point, but as is well known, the high and the mighty of airlines and airport management also view these pages, (I suppose they've got to learn the truth somehwere ), and if opinions were reliant on posting your real name, I think there would be very little worth reading on the site.
If you think about it, this site is like a sieve. Over a fairly short period of time some of the nutcases become evident and then it's just a matter of filtering these posters out of the equation, i.e. if you don't mind they don't matter.
No need to mention names. If we all agreed all the time we'd have to find something else to do (or the wife/partner would find it for us!).
I'm sure most folks on this site have put something they wish they could retract but that's ok. It's the ones' that do it all the time that just need to be ignored. Eventually they'll find someone else to bore (once they've run out of people in the pub to impress).
Another, "this is how you should behave" thread. Are some of us totally devoid of humour altogether? Is it not enough that we already lead strictly regimented professional lives? Do we also have to be subjected to the PC brigade in our spare time? Do we have to be constantly told what our opinions should be? And, more to the point, that if we have an opinion, we should keep it to ourselves lest we offend someone unnecessarily?
If someone has voiced an opinion concerning non aviation personnel on this website, then they must have their reasons and should be allowed to express that opinion. If you or I don't like that opinion, then we should respect their right to say so.
In point of fact, Chalky, this is a prime example of why SOME non aviation people upset the applecart: WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH RUMOURS & NEWS???
------------------ Very funny, Scotty. Now beam up my clothes!
Having been the recipient of a few insults myself, I have to say that it's a small price to pay for the ability to express my opinion.
I'm well aware that others may disagree with me - it's just a shame if some of those respond in an immature manner.
Best thing to do is ignore 'em and don't respond in kind: after all - if someone has a valid point of view they will stand by it and defend with a reasoned argument, won't they? So the insults are a form of admission of defeat.
So bring it on guys - but remember that insults always say much more about the insulter than the insultee.
Nice to see the Telegraph mention PPRuNe. As for the discussion, this rears its head every few months and we all have to go through the motions of reiterating how much more pleasant it is when we all act in a civilised manner.
Experience shows that most regular readers are able to filter out the more extreme postings and have the intelligence to avoid being baited by the regular wind-up merchants. Unfortunately there are always a few who cannot resist entering the fray and diverting a topic off course with counter slagging which, as most of us know just leads nowhere and eventually gets a thread closed or moved to a more obscure part of the forums.
To update you on the stats, we now have over 31,000 registered users. Over 35,000 people visit this website every day from all over the world. Over 10 million pages are viewed every month of which over 6 million have readable content. For the techies, the new server is using just under 140Gb of bandwidth every month and the trend shows a steady increase.
When the site first started I found that on average only 5% of registered users ever posted anything and if that figure is still true then only about 1550 of you ever post here whilst the rest only read. Last month there were 1,078,753 visitors to the site worldwide and this month that figure is up by over 6%.
Some anecdotal evidence of how influential PPRuNe has become was related to me recently by a senior management person who told me that several of their junior managers were rating their performance by what type of coments were being made about them and their service on PPRuNe! Also, earlier this year Robin Lloyd (PPRuNe Towers) and myself were invited to talk at the Flight International Crew management Conference held this year in London. Almost all of the delegates knew of the website and most were aware of what is discussed on it. PPRuNe was also referred to in several of the presentations.
Knowing that PPRuNe has some sort of influence means that the work of the moderators is even more important than ever and whilst we try to avoid intervention, it still becomes necessary when a few individuals don't have the common courtesy to realise that it is possible to have frank and lively discussion without resorting to immature insults and xenophobic rhetoric.
Overall, the success of the website is the diversity of views and experience of the contributors. It will never be perfect and there will always be newcomers who step into the fray without realising how painful that can be especially if they are of a more sensitive personality and there will also be 'regulars' who don't realise that they are extremely irritating to the majority, but then that's just a reflection of society in general.
This is still the most widely read professional aviation website and as long as the majority of readers are able to sort out the wheat from the chaff it will continue to inform and entertain. There are no professional staff writers here but thankfully some of you should have missed your vocation and manage to keep most of the threads exciting and witty. Thank you.
------------------ Capt PPRuNe aka Danny Fyne The Professional Pilots RUmour NEtwork
<<Yawn! Another, "this is how you should behave" thread. Are some of us totally devoid of humour altogether>>
I don't think humour has much to do with a supposed "professional" slagging off someone with whom he doesn't share an viewpoint.
As someone once said, "opinions are like noses, everyone's got one", and surely everyone is entitled to express it in a civil manner without being "flamed" in the way that some people are herein. A constructive response is usually better received than a destructive one.
PS: It may not be "rumour or news", but Danny hasn't moved it, so presumably he's satisfied!!
i agree, i am a wannabe but have noticed how there appear to be many users waiting to pounce like a pack of hungry wolves ready to rip anybody apart. Not very pleasant! This particular attitude has stopped me from posting things in this forum for the fear of ridicule from the more expirienced flight personnel.
Danny What do you think about people like myself who use this site. I am a Train driver and am taking my PPL at the moment. Sometime in the future, i might go for some kind of airline/cargo job, but i am not sure when. This site to me is invaluable, has answered many questions and has given me some valuble information too. It has helped me decide where my future lies and that is in aviation, hopefully as a pilot somewhere. Also, i have made some good friends and chatted to loads of good, intelligent and witty people through the chat room, another great part of this site. So, as an 'outsider' i wonder if you mind people like myself contributing to your most excellent site. It really is something to be proud of and a big drink will be bought for you at the Gatbash....Well done to yourself and the other moderators for the time you give to this site. Many thanks.