Air India Captain Arrested
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CAPTAINNIC & Samba,
What you heard were not mere rumours. As someone who had flown with some of these con artists, it was amazing how easy it was for them to con the KAL flight administration. A number of those were on the B777 and quite a few on the B744 when KAL started to accept non rated DECs. Ah, not forgetting those latinos with ICAO level 6 English having great difficulties with RT in Europe, Oceania and certain parts of Asia. How did they get level 6 English....the secret....a certain US ICAO English examiner of Latin American extract contracted by the Koreans to conduct the ICAO English tests just wantonly passed his latino bethrens with excellent scores. Other excellent speakers of English ( other than Americans and British ) sometimes only get a 5! And I have flown with these and they have absolutely no problems with ATCs RT all over the world.
There is cheating all over, only more so in India, Korea and some areas in the Far East........any rumours in Vietnam?
What you heard were not mere rumours. As someone who had flown with some of these con artists, it was amazing how easy it was for them to con the KAL flight administration. A number of those were on the B777 and quite a few on the B744 when KAL started to accept non rated DECs. Ah, not forgetting those latinos with ICAO level 6 English having great difficulties with RT in Europe, Oceania and certain parts of Asia. How did they get level 6 English....the secret....a certain US ICAO English examiner of Latin American extract contracted by the Koreans to conduct the ICAO English tests just wantonly passed his latino bethrens with excellent scores. Other excellent speakers of English ( other than Americans and British ) sometimes only get a 5! And I have flown with these and they have absolutely no problems with ATCs RT all over the world.
There is cheating all over, only more so in India, Korea and some areas in the Far East........any rumours in Vietnam?
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Captjns...Just because you have not come across pilots from JAR or FAA fudging their records does not mean they dont exist. I really dont have a case of sour grapes i am pretty happy about life in general.. I see a lot of expats with sour grapes though when they see asian carriers calling the shots... with high growth rates of indian aviation the regulatory body DGCA has not seen any reform. Corruption is a major issue in india and like every other sector its in aviation also...
Last edited by jet_737ng; 21st Mar 2011 at 19:29.
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jetwins
I think the fake-pilots should be punished for what they did -- they bribed government officials to attain licenses for which they had no right to have and endangered seemingly countless lives in doing so. I do believe the government officials who took the bribes and handed out the false licenses should also be punished too and removed from their positions.
I think the fake-pilots should be punished for what they did -- they bribed government officials to attain licenses for which they had no right to have and endangered seemingly countless lives in doing so. I do believe the government officials who took the bribes and handed out the false licenses should also be punished too and removed from their positions.
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Punish DGCA Officials
Jane-DoH
I have read your post as well as Jetwins.
I agree with Jetwins that the Punishing DGCA officials will Stem the rot in the system like nothing else can.
The D.G.C.A. licencing officials can drive an honest Pilot up the wall and commit suicide. Most pilots have paid Speed Money and Money to overcome Frivolous objections of D.G.C.A. officials. They have done wrong but the bigger sinners are DGCA officials. Punish the DGCA chaps first. & see corruption end in Indian Aviation.
I have read your post as well as Jetwins.
I agree with Jetwins that the Punishing DGCA officials will Stem the rot in the system like nothing else can.
The D.G.C.A. licencing officials can drive an honest Pilot up the wall and commit suicide. Most pilots have paid Speed Money and Money to overcome Frivolous objections of D.G.C.A. officials. They have done wrong but the bigger sinners are DGCA officials. Punish the DGCA chaps first. & see corruption end in Indian Aviation.
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If you are waiting for the indigenous to do something about the DGCA, you will be waiting a very long time indeed. They are too busy trying to get rid of the expats. They really cant see who the real enemy is and are probably too stupid to ever see. What never ceases to amaze me is the willingness of the Indians to roll over and take this sort of treatment.
Where is ICAO when you need them??
Where is ICAO when you need them??
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weido_salt… I have to say that it’s not the DGCA that wants the expats out… it SWIP and the Indian Airline Pilots Union. Their rationale is… no expat captains… faster upgrade to command for current first officers. One can only hope that Indian airlines have adequate legal consul, risk managers, and liability insurance advisors consulting them on the foibles of premature upgrades.
I was shocked that a previous poster felt that pilots who bribed the DGCA should be compensated for personal damages. Now I hope that statement was a tongue in cheek remark.
As I posted before, not only ICAO, but every aviation agency round the free world need to take immediate action against all Indian Airlines operating within their airspace. As extreme as my thought may be, but remember due to safety violations, some airlines from Africa and Indonesia banned from the EU and the US.
Safety Assessment of Foreign Aircraft Ramp Inspections (SAFA) will only serve as a process to see if the fraudulent documents in the possession of these illegals are current. Given the state of the DGCA’s ineptitude as well as record keeping procedures, I can’t see the DGCA being motivated as a cooperating entity with other aviation agencies. Has anyone visted the DGCA in Delhi? IMO words cannot describe the state of the offices of the DGCA. It’s one of those sights that one need to witness for themselves. Shear filth and disgrace.
Call me a cynic, call me paranoid, or untrusting, but this is what I foresee. IMO the DGCA will discover more fraudulent certificates than they were banking on. We can all agree the DGCA and the Indian Government want this embarrassment to disappear. With that being said, I’ll wager a month’s pay that the DGCA will take their pens, (ala a magic wands) and by the miracle of the Indian Sky Gods, make those fraudulent certificates into legitimate ones.
ICAO needs to step in to audit ATPL pilot certificates of those airmen operating beyond the borders of India. A team must be created comprised of representatives of aviation agencies from other countries. Oversight of the Indian DGCA is essential, as clearly exhibited, they incapable of this themselves. Immediate action must be taken to ensure the safety of the innocents both onboard the aircraft and on the ground. The cost should be borne by the DGCA.
If SWIP and the Indian Airline Pilots Union had one set of cajones between the group of them, they would demand reform concerning this matter to route out and prosecute those illegals… but alas, and for shame… illegal pilots amongst their ranks is not of a primary concern.
I was shocked that a previous poster felt that pilots who bribed the DGCA should be compensated for personal damages. Now I hope that statement was a tongue in cheek remark.
As I posted before, not only ICAO, but every aviation agency round the free world need to take immediate action against all Indian Airlines operating within their airspace. As extreme as my thought may be, but remember due to safety violations, some airlines from Africa and Indonesia banned from the EU and the US.
Safety Assessment of Foreign Aircraft Ramp Inspections (SAFA) will only serve as a process to see if the fraudulent documents in the possession of these illegals are current. Given the state of the DGCA’s ineptitude as well as record keeping procedures, I can’t see the DGCA being motivated as a cooperating entity with other aviation agencies. Has anyone visted the DGCA in Delhi? IMO words cannot describe the state of the offices of the DGCA. It’s one of those sights that one need to witness for themselves. Shear filth and disgrace.
Call me a cynic, call me paranoid, or untrusting, but this is what I foresee. IMO the DGCA will discover more fraudulent certificates than they were banking on. We can all agree the DGCA and the Indian Government want this embarrassment to disappear. With that being said, I’ll wager a month’s pay that the DGCA will take their pens, (ala a magic wands) and by the miracle of the Indian Sky Gods, make those fraudulent certificates into legitimate ones.
ICAO needs to step in to audit ATPL pilot certificates of those airmen operating beyond the borders of India. A team must be created comprised of representatives of aviation agencies from other countries. Oversight of the Indian DGCA is essential, as clearly exhibited, they incapable of this themselves. Immediate action must be taken to ensure the safety of the innocents both onboard the aircraft and on the ground. The cost should be borne by the DGCA.
If SWIP and the Indian Airline Pilots Union had one set of cajones between the group of them, they would demand reform concerning this matter to route out and prosecute those illegals… but alas, and for shame… illegal pilots amongst their ranks is not of a primary concern.
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i knw many expat pilots who has never flown the aircraft as commender but took the rating by paying. they r more dangerous than having a guy who atleast has genuine flying experience... if ne one wants to knw the names , i can provide with licence numbers....
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Just saw in the news, DGCA licensing officer 2 touts and ANOTHER pilot arrested in india!
Seems like the authority have finally opened there eyes or is this just another way of silencing the audience!!
Seems like the authority have finally opened there eyes or is this just another way of silencing the audience!!
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It is unfortunate that this outrage will tarnish the reputations of comptent and qualified Indian crew.
One can only hope that vigourous action is taken by the Indian authorities and the wrongdoers are properly brought to justice.
That is the only way that they can avoid the country being blacklisted.
No doubt Indian airlines will be top of the pops for SAFA ramp checks for some time.
One can only hope that vigourous action is taken by the Indian authorities and the wrongdoers are properly brought to justice.
That is the only way that they can avoid the country being blacklisted.
No doubt Indian airlines will be top of the pops for SAFA ramp checks for some time.
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They also need to scrutinize and put under the microscope licenses of expat pilots that have converted to Indian licenses the dubious way!
Would be interesting to see how many of them get booted out!
Would be interesting to see how many of them get booted out!
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Times of India report
The Air India pilot was arrested the day before I flew from Nagpur to Delhi with LOCO Indigo.
At the time of his arrest one of Indigos pilots was also arrested for false docs.
It is only the tip of the iceberg but the Indian Authorities have said they will take strong action against these 'fakes' as they weedle them out of the system (newspaper reporting - how true not verified)
How robust that action will be presumably dependent on what level of back handers is required.
As was stated in another post (con pilots being conned) if it's worth spending 5-7lakh to up your salary to 20lakh a month then a few more lakh won't be missed to get a blind eye turned.
After the report, sent to me by a friend in Hong Kong, of up to 200 Chinese pilots having been found to hold false papers I would hope that serious measures will be taken.
At the time of his arrest one of Indigos pilots was also arrested for false docs.
It is only the tip of the iceberg but the Indian Authorities have said they will take strong action against these 'fakes' as they weedle them out of the system (newspaper reporting - how true not verified)
How robust that action will be presumably dependent on what level of back handers is required.
As was stated in another post (con pilots being conned) if it's worth spending 5-7lakh to up your salary to 20lakh a month then a few more lakh won't be missed to get a blind eye turned.
After the report, sent to me by a friend in Hong Kong, of up to 200 Chinese pilots having been found to hold false papers I would hope that serious measures will be taken.
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There will be lots of noise and a few heads will roll, but in a year or so's time nothing will have changed because corruption is endemic to the sub-continent. Over the years I have interviewed scores of IT Engineers from India, many with supposed higher degrees, who would be hard pressed to know how to actuate the on-off switch of the average computer. I have heard of similar experiences within the medical professions. That is the reality. What is needed is that for those who fly internationally their licences to do so should be isssued and verified by an international body. Otherwise it is just a lot of hot air. What they choose to do within their domestic confines is an internal matter.
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Capt.m....
Expats do not convert their licenses. They are issued a Foreign Air Transport Authorization (FATA). A FATA is tantamount to a validation. One must maintain their qualifications to airman's certificate current and medical in order for a FATA to be issued. With that being said... no conversion.
Can't say I can comment on the aviation system works in Nairobi.
Most expats in India are from countries whose aviation agencies record keeping systems are computerized and are almost, and I say again almost bullet proof. With that being said it is rather unlikely that aviation officials from those countries would or could be complicit in such a scheme as endemic in India.
Expats do not convert their licenses. They are issued a Foreign Air Transport Authorization (FATA). A FATA is tantamount to a validation. One must maintain their qualifications to airman's certificate current and medical in order for a FATA to be issued. With that being said... no conversion.
Can't say I can comment on the aviation system works in Nairobi.
Most expats in India are from countries whose aviation agencies record keeping systems are computerized and are almost, and I say again almost bullet proof. With that being said it is rather unlikely that aviation officials from those countries would or could be complicit in such a scheme as endemic in India.
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capt.m
Expats are not allowed to hold an Indian licence and be awarded the associated privileges. They are given a validation (FATA) under very strict conditions while flying Indian registered aircraft. One company, one type of aircraft and no training for new types, etc., etc.
Expats are not allowed to hold an Indian licence and be awarded the associated privileges. They are given a validation (FATA) under very strict conditions while flying Indian registered aircraft. One company, one type of aircraft and no training for new types, etc., etc.
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Stop that expat bashing! Indian aviation produces more fake pilots in a year than all western countries together in decades. IMHO employing expat pilots is the only way for an indian carrier to assure competent pilots in the cockpit. 
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India revokes licences of 14 'fake pilots'
Has someone already posted this? If so, apologies...
BBC News - India revokes licences of 14 'fake pilots'
BBC News - India revokes licences of 14 'fake pilots'
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India revokes licences of 14 'fake pilots'
Probably this action on part of the Indian regulators is little too late in coming, who, while following the diktats of its political masters, brings in changes without even considering the checks and balances. End result: compromised aviation safety!
Unfortunately, all this is happening in the centenary year of Indian aviation.
Unfortunately, all this is happening in the centenary year of Indian aviation.
Last edited by AvMed.IN; 29th Mar 2011 at 07:58.