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Old 21st Dec 2010, 11:52   #1 (permalink)
 
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Air India Fraudulently TriesTo Waive of FDTL Rules

As though all the recent negative publicity has not been enough for Air India !

This just got exposed by the Indian media and is a real shocker - an attempt to waive of all FDTL limits for pilots of diverted aircraft by issuing a company order made by fraud and misrepresentation !!

Air India's dangerous order to flight crew withdrawn

Whatever will they think of next ????
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Old 21st Dec 2010, 12:00   #2 (permalink)
 
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Why oh why are they not banned from the EU and the Indian DGCA downgraded! It is a disgrace.

PT6A
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Old 21st Dec 2010, 12:04   #3 (permalink)
 
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What would be a F100 Fleet captain be on now a days say in PNG?
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Old 21st Dec 2010, 12:10   #4 (permalink)
 
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For example, a flight from Delhi to London is diverted to Mumbai due to fog

Any one see something wrong here?
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Old 21st Dec 2010, 12:18   #5 (permalink)
 
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Good spot counter! must be carrying a lot of fuel at AI these days!
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Old 21st Dec 2010, 12:28   #6 (permalink)
 
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If nothing else it shows that the Indian media are getting a lot more savvy and someone is very kindly providing them with some inside information. Long may it continue.

PM
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Old 21st Dec 2010, 14:07   #7 (permalink)
 
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If nothing else it shows that the Indian media are getting a lot more savvy and someone is very kindly providing them with some inside information. Long may it continue.

See my above post and confirm your post! Do these idiots proof read?
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Old 21st Dec 2010, 14:07   #8 (permalink)


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Make the sector LHR DEL iso DEL LHR and it makes sense.
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Old 21st Dec 2010, 15:43   #9 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Why oh why are they not banned from the EU and the Indian DGCA downgraded! It is a disgrace.
Quite agree, and with the subject matter raised here:

Sleepy pilot caused Indian passenger plane crash

and here:

Fake pilots. This Helps To Explain A Lot Of Things...

perhaps the suspension of operations into ICAO contracting states would seem the only manner to motivate the DGAC to get itself in order..

or perhaps the international politics scene is playing a role in the lack of international motivation?

Last edited by stuckgear; 21st Dec 2010 at 20:24. Reason: typo
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Old 21st Dec 2010, 18:35   #10 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
perhaps the suspension of operations into ICAO contracting states would seem the only to motivate the DGAC to get itself in order.
That would seem a proper Course of Action among ICAO contracting states.
Quote:
or perhaps the international politics scene is playing a role in the lack of international motivation?
Most likely true, which reality seems to render ICAO (agreements across a spectrum of responsible flight operations) in some cases yet another "scrap of paper" to be used for ... /rant off.
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Old 21st Dec 2010, 20:31   #11 (permalink)
 
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^^ which kind of makes a mockery of the whole system and the progression towards a culture of safety [sic].
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Old 22nd Dec 2010, 00:45   #12 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
But perhaps it's better that passengers are slightly inconvenienced than a little unsafe.
Dear oh dear...how come they make it look like it's not that big of a deal? It is just a little unsafe to fly on an airplane that is being flown by two tired pilots for 18 (or more) hours straight. Yup...just a little

I'd rather be "inconvenienced" than dead if you ask me.

Quote:
Why oh why are they not banned from the EU and the Indian DGCA downgraded! It is a disgrace.
Ditto
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Old 22nd Dec 2010, 04:36   #13 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
a flight from Delhi to London
It's a typo. The reporter in the video clearly says London to Delhi.
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Old 22nd Dec 2010, 12:11   #14 (permalink)
 
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Question

from the link:

Quote:
Their bodies cannot maintain that level of alertness indefinitely and that's why 2 pilots after 9 hours of flying, and three hours of other duty, need rest.


can somebody confirm that pilots in India have more stringent/reasonable duty time limitations than we Europeans have? i wouldn't be surprised.
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Old 22nd Dec 2010, 12:36   #15 (permalink)
 
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For a time.. Maybe to this day India has NO FDTL as the DGCA canceled that section of the CAR.

PT6A
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Old 26th Dec 2010, 08:02   #16 (permalink)
 
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Indian DGCA FDTL scheme

The current Indian DGCA FDTL scheme is old and unsophisticated. The 1992 scheme document is here: http://dgca.nic.in/aic/aic28_92.pdf
For example, there is no allowance made for start time so the same limit applies for duty starting at 2300 as for a duty starting at 0900. In addition, the airlines have managed to get a waiver of the international flight time limits for a 2 pilot crew from 9hours flight time and 12 hours duty time to 10hours flight time and 14 hours duty time.
On 27th July 2007, a revised scheme was introduced which stayed in operation for less than one year. It gave considerabley more time off between flights, but did not do anyting to reduce the length of the duty and flight times permitted for 2 pilots operation. That scheme is still suspended.
There seems to be an intention to adopt the latest EASA scheme when that becomes operational in Europe.
Finally, the concept of "captain's discretion" is completely different to the EASA scheme and barely is worthy of the same title!
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Old 2nd Jan 2011, 10:35   #17 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Why oh why are they not banned from the EU and the Indian DGCA downgraded! It is a disgrace.

Quite agree, and with the subject matter raised here:

Sleepy pilot caused Indian passenger plane crash

and here:

Fake pilots. This Helps To Explain A Lot Of Things...

perhaps the suspension of operations into ICAO contracting states would seem the only manner to motivate the DGAC to get itself in order..

or perhaps the international politics scene is playing a role in the lack of international motivation?
Donīt forget about the Air India Express co-pilot who didnīt figure out that pulling back makes the houses get smaller and pushing forward makes the houses get bigger.

Report Cites 'Panicked' Co-Pilot in Air India Jetliner Dive - WSJ.com
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Old 2nd Jan 2011, 13:15   #18 (permalink)
 
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Air India is due to join Star Alliance in summer 2011, having been delayed, i believe, by IT issues from joining in 2010.

Does star alliance have any written standards regarding members and the methods/approach they employ ? Or is it purely a financial alliance.

I do wonder about some of the members. As SLF, an unwitting code share with someone like air india wouldnt make me overly happy.
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Old 3rd Jan 2011, 04:33   #19 (permalink)
 
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As a frequent SQ passenger, I sometimes end up on a code share with AI. If I ever got to the gate and saw one of their planes sat there, I would turn around and offload myself. "A little unsafe"?? Is their spokesperson serious??
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Old 4th Jan 2011, 11:48   #20 (permalink)
 
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stuckgear, PT6A,
Although people will find it hard to disagree with you about most things related to Air India/DGCA, your examples are rather blind and short sighted.

1) Sleepy pilot caused Indian passenger plane crash
Now what on earth does this have to do with anything? Most crashes will have a human element to it. You can bet your house the JAA/FAA and their pilots (so to speak) have played a role in multiple crashes and deaths. Why is this singled out as a bad regulator issue?

2) Fake pilots. This Helps To Explain A Lot Of Things...
True, this is a massive headache, one the DGCA needs to crack down on. How they will do it and whether it will work is anyone's guess.
But keep in mind EVERY regulatory agency has its battles. Heck there was a German pilot who almost (or did?) get arrested for forging his licence and flying on line operations carrying passengers as an Examiner when he was a co-pilot. So what now, throw the German agency into the list of 'blacklisted' whatever?

I would agree if you stated that pressure is probably needed from ICAO for the DGCA to get its house in order; but to base your claim on the fact that there was a crash in India + a few pilots are dishonest well heck!!! If you truly think that's an Indian problem and doesn't happen in western countries wake up get your head out of the mud and smell the fresh air.

Again, I reiterate the ICAO and other agencies NEED to put massive pressure on the DGCA to reform. There is a heck of a lot of corruption in the system. However that's different from saying because AI came up with its own FDTL rule the DGCA needs to be banned?
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