Turkish Airlines B777 Emergency Evacuation at LTBA
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Turkish Airlines B777 Emergency Evacuation at LTBA
A TK B777 300 was lined up for take off last night (03/12/10 at approx 22:35z) at Istanbul's 17L, when after not having moving for a while the strobes were switched off and shortly afterwards the aircraft slides blew on the left hand side only.
Passengers and crew all safe with what looked like no major injuries.
Was informed by ATC that they had a cargo hold fire indication.
Runway blocked for some time whilst the slides were disconnected and the aircraft towed away.
Was sat in one of the aircraft back in the queue waiting for departure when this took place.
Passengers and crew all safe with what looked like no major injuries.
Was informed by ATC that they had a cargo hold fire indication.
Runway blocked for some time whilst the slides were disconnected and the aircraft towed away.
Was sat in one of the aircraft back in the queue waiting for departure when this took place.
Last edited by BusDriver947; 4th Dec 2010 at 05:38.
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Boeing's unequivocal instruction is to treat all fire and smoke warnings SERIOUSLY; no second guessing, trying to be arsey smarty! You can come to grief mighty quickly if you insist on being a smart alec
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Excuse me Mr Unhooked , since when do ATC and 'other aircraft ' advise the Captain of an aircraft that they have a hold fire ?
Obviously you know nothing about hold fires / extinguishing etc , so . ergo , you are NOT an aviation type person ?
Read it all up on the interweb and get back to me when you are more of an expert than when you wrote this ***** .
Obviously you know nothing about hold fires / extinguishing etc , so . ergo , you are NOT an aviation type person ?
Read it all up on the interweb and get back to me when you are more of an expert than when you wrote this ***** .
When in doubt there is no doubt..
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I trust the hold fire was confirmed by ATC
Nothing to do with us(ATC).The crew make the decision...we send the fire trucks and deal with traffic issues.
Maybe Jar-Ops(MSN Flightsim) states differently
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Payscale:
Be careful with evacuations: Evacs from widebody aircraft that have the main deck 5M off the ground or more can be very dangerous. You don't throw people down the slides lightly - there is a good chance that at least one of the pax will have a heart attack or go down the slide head first - they all listen to the safety briefing.........not.
Giving the order to evacuate in a widebody has (i'm guestimating here) a 70% chance of causing a death due to "misadventure".
QF in SIN did not evacuate - the pax were kept on board for an hour. No doubt the above figured in the Capts. decision. I grant you he had no cargo fire warning but, in my opinion, if on the ground you would look for postive secondary indications before popping the slides I would have thought.
my 2c worth
Be careful with evacuations: Evacs from widebody aircraft that have the main deck 5M off the ground or more can be very dangerous. You don't throw people down the slides lightly - there is a good chance that at least one of the pax will have a heart attack or go down the slide head first - they all listen to the safety briefing.........not.
Giving the order to evacuate in a widebody has (i'm guestimating here) a 70% chance of causing a death due to "misadventure".
QF in SIN did not evacuate - the pax were kept on board for an hour. No doubt the above figured in the Capts. decision. I grant you he had no cargo fire warning but, in my opinion, if on the ground you would look for postive secondary indications before popping the slides I would have thought.
my 2c worth
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Looking for positive secondary indications would usually mean opening the hold, not a good idea with pax still on board, if I remember correctly, giving a fire access to vast amounts of fresh air is a bad thing.
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actually there was no fire or smoke or any traces of it afterwards..
fire and rescue is at their position etc..
stairs could be used while other slides remain armed CC ready for full evac.
lucky one, only 30 minor injuries out of 284 on board.
fire and rescue is at their position etc..
stairs could be used while other slides remain armed CC ready for full evac.
lucky one, only 30 minor injuries out of 284 on board.
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Excuse me Mr Unhooked , since when do ATC and 'other aircraft ' advise the Captain of an aircraft that they have a hold fire ?
Obviously you know nothing about hold fires / extinguishing etc , so . ergo , you are NOT an aviation type person ?
Read it all up on the interweb and get back to me when you are more of an expert than when you wrote this ***** .
Obviously you know nothing about hold fires / extinguishing etc , so . ergo , you are NOT an aviation type person ?
Read it all up on the interweb and get back to me when you are more of an expert than when you wrote this ***** .
As flight crew we are paid to use all available resources to make decisions in a safety based environment, to me this means asking ATC if they see anything abnormal (good viz and pointing in the right direction dependent), speak to cabin crew, get fire services to come and use heat seeking equipment if available, use trained eyes in other aircraft, all if time allows of course.
Not knowing the circumstances of this one its difficult to say but i wouldn't evacuate immediately on the strength of a EICAS\ECAM alone, as mentioned earlier it can injure/kill people and after all if you asses you have a fire its 90s to get everyone off using half the doors.
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Interesting comments one and all.
I'm sure the decision to evacuate couldn't have been an easy one to make.
There were no fire and rescue services in attendance when the doors opened and slides blew. (News reports are different). They arrived shortly after as you'd expect.
In fact I was amazed to see how many passengers made their way across the taxiway straight towards an A340 (next in line for take off) who still had it's engines running! Other's did their own thing. Not their fault, just very confusing and easy to follow the person ahead.
In time passengers were rounded up and kept together until 3 airport buses came to collect.
I've never seen or hope to see again a real evacuation, but I assure it was very scary to watch.
I'm sure the decision to evacuate couldn't have been an easy one to make.
There were no fire and rescue services in attendance when the doors opened and slides blew. (News reports are different). They arrived shortly after as you'd expect.
In fact I was amazed to see how many passengers made their way across the taxiway straight towards an A340 (next in line for take off) who still had it's engines running! Other's did their own thing. Not their fault, just very confusing and easy to follow the person ahead.
In time passengers were rounded up and kept together until 3 airport buses came to collect.
I've never seen or hope to see again a real evacuation, but I assure it was very scary to watch.
Last edited by BusDriver947; 4th Dec 2010 at 13:32.
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I trust the hold fire was confirmed by ATC or other aircraft etc before they decided to throw all the pax out
PPRuNe really does need a 'professional verified' section for truly valid comments.
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Just to add re <<get fire services to come and use heat seeking equipment if available>> - our company had a Fire Service insist on opening the hold to "check" - as noted above, about the worst thing you could do if there had been a fire - I believe they went for the evac as soon as they saw the door open despite clearly instructing the fire services not to.
NB as well, your evacuation options can get limited once the Fire Services arrive, unless you can trust/liaise with them enough to leave one side clear for instance.
NoD
NB as well, your evacuation options can get limited once the Fire Services arrive, unless you can trust/liaise with them enough to leave one side clear for instance.
NoD
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NoD
Agreed the options do become more limited but certainly at LHR the fire services have the ability to do a heat scan on the aircraft looking for hotspots remotely without opening holds etc.
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"Ahhh, the young MS sim crowd comments...again.
PPRuNe really does need a 'professional verified' section for truly valid comments."
Well, he does know "pax" is short for passengers...
PPRuNe really does need a 'professional verified' section for truly valid comments."
Well, he does know "pax" is short for passengers...
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but certainly at LHR the fire services have the ability to do a heat scan on the aircraft looking for hotspots remotely without opening holds
However, it was a major European capital
NoD
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You have to bear in mind that an etops a/c should be capable of containing a cargo hold fire for 180 minutes. That's only the theory and certification of course but nevertheless it should give you the confidence to spend a few more seconds evaluating. It is a difficult command decision but I would hold out a short while for a second indication (whatever that may be) before a rushed evacuation decision. As has been pointed out an evac can have serious if not fatal consequenses for some. Shame to kill someone for a faulty indication.
Yes I know what you will say. Shame to kill a whole load for lack of a timely evac. Like I said it's a tough command decision.
Thats a command decision however, not a "spotters" decision.
TC
Yes I know what you will say. Shame to kill a whole load for lack of a timely evac. Like I said it's a tough command decision.
Thats a command decision however, not a "spotters" decision.
TC
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Why do people always try to second guess? Just read the QRH intro, it could not be clearer.
"It must be stressed that for smoke that continues or a fire that cannot be positively confirmed to be completely extinguished, the earliest possible descent, landing, and evacuation must be done."
From 767 Cargo Fire QRH:
"WARNING: Inform ground personnel NOT to open any cargo door after landing until all passengers and crew have exited the airplane and fire fighting equipment is nearby."
Simples!
"It must be stressed that for smoke that continues or a fire that cannot be positively confirmed to be completely extinguished, the earliest possible descent, landing, and evacuation must be done."
From 767 Cargo Fire QRH:
"WARNING: Inform ground personnel NOT to open any cargo door after landing until all passengers and crew have exited the airplane and fire fighting equipment is nearby."
Simples!
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Ahh, the lessons from UPS in DXB so quickly forgotten!
If you have a cargo fire warning and do an evacuation, nobody can touch you. If you don't, and people get killed, I'd say you better burn up together with your pax.
763 jock is absolutely correct! Follow the book, that is if you do know what it says. I'm not sure a lot of you on this tread do.
If you have a cargo fire warning and do an evacuation, nobody can touch you. If you don't, and people get killed, I'd say you better burn up together with your pax.
763 jock is absolutely correct! Follow the book, that is if you do know what it says. I'm not sure a lot of you on this tread do.