All Viking Pilots Have Been Fired

[tflier]

So no aircraft and now no pilots...............surely the end?!!

An email was sent to the pilots, not even addressed individually, but dear colleague, didn't even have the common decency or courtesy to tell you by name that you had been terminated with immediate effect.

So where does that leave the pilots under European employment law with regards to redundancy?

B******s.

[Mike-Bracknell]

Fired != Made redundant. To fire you, they need good (legal) reason so I suspect it's the latter, which means statutory redundancy as a minimum.

[tflier]

Contracts terminated with immediate effect.....Yes I suppose technically made redundant.

[The Ancient Geek]

Were the aircrew employees or self employed contractors ?
Only employees get redundancy pay.

[Agaricus bisporus]

...that you had been terminated with immediate effect.

So where does that leave the pilots under European employment law with regards to redundancy?

Not redundant in anyone's law, just dead.
But perhaps it was the contracts that were terminated, not the pilots...

[Professor Rubik]

A lot of the Cabin Crew received the same standard letter, arrived late in true Viking style!!

Under UK employment law I believe you have to be initially advised that your job is "at risk" followed by a cooling off period, followed by the contract termination notice period as per the terms of your contract. Of course if a company goes bankrupt or into the hands of the administrators this is all forefitted by default, but this is not the case here is it? Viking are still operating but have apparently ditched their employees with no standard notice period whatsoever.......

Please do correct me if I'm wrong ??

[Alber Ratman]

Viking gone bust?

[Professor Rubik]

No, apparently not! That's the whole point.
The Uk's rules on redundancy are quite clearly laid out. You just can't get rid of permanent contracted employees with zero notice. You require a consulation period, followed by a termination notice period stipulating all the details, including the date of your last day of employment. Typical notice period for termination might be 1 month in the same way you would have to give 1 month to leave......

[Phileas Fogg]

Well if Viking has no aircraft then it isn't operating but has the company wound up, by debt, or is it still in existence?

Aircraft, anything, only normally become repossessed due to non payment(s), on the face of it it sounds quite a game plan, a scam, i.e. let's operate for a suimmer, make as much money in a short term, whilst paying the least bills, then 'foxtrot oscar' with the monies reaped.

[A and C]

Viking have not gone bust however the company is in something of a Swedish version of the American Chapter 11.

It will be interesting to see if Viking returns to flying.............I await the answer with interest.

[max_continuous]

Perhaps some light can be shed here:

Viking aircraft impounded at Gatwick for unpaid debts

Hardly a professional way to treat professional crew if the "dear colleague" standard letter was sent.

[Professor Rubik]

With PW involved thats quite probable. When XL when down it was quite believable since we all know airlines run huge overheads and the balance of finances is very tight. Very easy for it to tip and fall into the hands of the administrators as it did. Then a few years on Kiss goes down as well? This was just a ticket sales company that sold seats on Vikings aircraft. According to the figures, when it went down there were 13,000 people travelling at the time on tickets bought through Kiss and another 60,000ish sold tickets pending future flights. The company was little more than an office, a website and a handful of staff. It operated for just long enough to make a ton of cash, wind up a list of debts and probably not pay the taxman before it mysteriously collapsed. Makes you wonder doesn't it, how a company with such large sales and low overheads can fail ??
I know this is not directly related to this post but it needs to said......

[Professor Rubik]

Some more facts are certainly required here but I believe Viking run several arms; Viking Hellas, Viking Sweden and Viking AB (UK) amongst them.
It seems they have now dropped Viking AB or at least the best part of it. The point is these were UK employees on UK contracts. You can't just go to another country and run an operation based in that country but on your own rules. If you could there would be nothing stopping you having a company that was based in a third world country where there are no rules to speak of, and then operate it in the country of your choice and exploiting it, and it's people.
I work for a Canadian company based in the UK but they still have to employ us according to UK law.

Sorry if I'm wandering off the original point.

[Professor Rubik]

This is a link to the governments facts on redundancy regarding consultation and notice periods :-

Redundancy: your rights to consultation : Directgov - Employment

In particular I would draw the attention of those that have been affected to this particular bit :-

Failure to consult

You or your rep might be able to make a claim to an Employment Tribunal for a ‘protective award’ if your employer:

• does not begin consultation early enough
• ends the consultation early
• doesn’t consult properly

An Employment Tribunal could make a ‘protective award’ of up to 90 days' pay for each affected employee. The amount will be decided by the Employment Tribunal, based on the extent of your employer’s failure and the circumstances.



Unless Viking have actually gone bust I fail to see how they can get away with giving their staff a zero notice period in the UK ??

[Phileas Fogg]

Prof,

Winning any tribunal may be one thing but getting any money may be another.

Even if one wins a tribunal if the other party declines to pay up then one needs to take County Court action, now where are Viking AB actually located, in UK or elsewhere, I doubt County Court works internationally thus this could be a right bag of worms scenario!

[Massey1Bravo]

An Employment Tribunal could make a ‘protective award’ of up to 90 days' pay for each affected employee. The amount will be decided by the Employment Tribunal, based on the extent of your employer’s failure and the circumstances.

IIRC The 90 days notice is not applicable once the company go into administration, Any unpaid wages and 'awards' will need to be claimed from the point of view of a preferential creditor. The problem is that an airline usually has few assets left after repossession of the fleet by the bank.

[speedbird_481_papa]

This isnt a hangover still from the Collapse of the flights booking firm, Kiss Flights at all is it? Because when they went bust, Viking pulled out here at BRS thus making all the UK Crew redundent.

[speedbird_481_papa]

Interesting to note as well if you go onto the fly Viking website, it only directs you to Viking Hellas

[Professor Rubik]

Agreed, if the company goes into administration, bankrupt etc. all of the rules and contracts etc. are virtually worthless. At the moment though according to the company spokesman quoted in the link from max_continuous, they are most definately "not in liquidation". This means they are contiously choosing not to play by the rules.

Fogg, agreed also. These things are never straight forward and we will have to see how it develops from here on in. If it all collapses in the next few days then it's an entirely different playing field.

I feel for the company as well as the employees, it's just at the moment it all looks like they've made a mess of it here in the UK and retracted back to Sweden with a blatent disregard for UK employment law.
Thats all I'm really getting at.....

[TSR2]

retracted back to Sweden with a blatent disregard for UK employment law.

But 40% of Viking Airways is owned by Phil Wyatt.