I have just retired after 44 years of flying 43 of which were with airlines, i started in 1966, i`m now 65, --the last 5 years flying A320`s my opinion is that 65 is quite old enough, there is no way a 65 year old is going to climb into a raft, (mind you at my final drill 1 year ago hardly anybody except the youngest and fittest F/O`s could do it either). At 65 most people are just physically not up to all the different drills etc, however most can easily pass the sim. of course there will be excecptions but they will be few.
lambourne: So, after all this ranting, are you going to hold fast to your principles and retire at 60 while all your compatriots are flying until 65 or 70?
It would be fifteen years ago now that I read a newspaper article about an 84 year old flight attendant still working for Delta. The article said she started on DC2s.
Looking at the United crew arriving in Sydney every morning, I'd be guessing that quite a few of the flight attendants on that trip are around (and either side of) the 70 mark. I've never seen so much blue rinse hair outside a bingo hall.
If you are over 60 and wonder why you never get coffee, tea, water or asked if you want us to coorcindate with the FA's your meal, you are now brought up to speed. You are operating as an indpedent system with nothing but your own self preservation being the number one factor. You have not been accidentally overlooked by the rest fo the crew. The rest of the crew is operating outside of your needs or wants. You still get to sprout your wise words, but when it comes to keeping you fed and watered, you are own your own.
Sorry it has come to this. Just how it has worked out. There were many big talking over 60 pilots procrlaimig retirement was going to take place at 62. Still see ALL those faces. So the lies started early and keep on coming. Maybe you can snag another A/P approach next week. These guys are giving up landings to the computer as if they are part of the crew. Definitley demonstrating some fear of the airplane lately.
Coming up on 2 years till the thieves are released. I certainly hope no one at my company takes the time to acknowledge these events. Let these guys sliver under the door like the low life they really are. Good Riddiance and don't let the door hit you in the bum on the way out!
Lambourne, you are a fine piece of work. How much have you had to drink tonight? Your rants would be funny if they were not so sad.
Two years, and you think age 65 is over. My guess is 90% are staying past age 60. Age 62, you were told? Heck, my guess is they just wanted to shut you up. Oh! Landings? I have 22 in the last 90 days, and don't recall any being autoland. Meals, coffee, soda have never been a problem. We don't have FAs so we either get, cook our own or for all.
I'm really enjoying this thread! Not sure if Lambourne is serious, or just winding us up. but if his observations are true it's a worrying perspective on the standards of his current airline. Maybe the decline in the ability of his older peers is that they are all 'good ole boys' who have spent years and years of their career being told what to do by the flight dispatcher and have been carried along by an operational system (company ops and ATC) which slowly erodes the decision making and perceptive capability. What is important is knowing or recognising the point where one's operating standards are falling short and it seems that Lambourne is flying with people who no longer acknowledge that. I would like to know how Lambourne decides to act in the way he does. Does he look at company records, GD's, or peek at the guys passport to see if he's over 60 to select a behavioural mode, or is it simply on appearance or capability? I have flown with aged looking 45 year olds who have all of the degenerate attributes so detested by Lambourne. Conversely, I operate regularly with some over-60's who look 45 and would probably put you in the shade in every way. Some of them are ex US majors too, so no bias. Please let me know what a CD arrival into LHR is. I seem to be having a senior moment........
I'm surprised that no one has picked up on the fact that Lambourne voluntarily chose to be an f/o rather than take a command on a narrow body jet? Lack of confidence perhaps? Lack of command potential? Hence the bitterness and vitriol?!
I'm surprised that no one has picked up on the fact that Lambourne voluntarily chose to be an f/o rather than take a command on a narrow body jet? Lack of confidence perhaps? Lack of command potential? Hence the bitterness and vitriol?!
Without a doubt.
Quote:
You are operating as an indpedent system with nothing but your own self preservation being the number one factor. You have not been accidentally overlooked by the rest fo the crew.
Sounds good to me (spelling excepted), as I don't take much notice of the rest of the crew, anyway. As long as they do as I say, when I say it, I could care less.
lambourne: So, after all this ranting, are you going to hold fast to your principles and retire at 60 while all your compatriots are flying until 65 or 70?
I doubt very much if lambourne will even get the opportunity to choose MarcK. Someone so full of bile, acid and hatred to the extent he shows here must surely lose their medical long before sixty, due to hypertension, assuming he is not carted off by men in white coats before that!
Yes obie2, as someone said to me a very long time ago, "A command on anything is better than a F/O on anything". One wonders.
He also concurred with C/MED that there was limited data available to allow a scientific justification to change the age limits for pilots, adding that the age of sixty was as arbitrary as any other number that might be selected. Therefore, he supported consulting States through a questionnaire. On the other hand, he did not consider that the process of submitting a questionnaire along with a proposed amendment without giving due consideration to the results from the questionnaire was the best course of action, especially since he could not see an urgent need to do so, particularly since the existing provisions had stood the test of time and should not be amended in haste.
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Responding to the previous intervention, C/MED pointed out that, in the JAA context, there were additional conditions attached to the upper age limit applied in the European countries, one being that an older pilot could not function except in a multi-crew operation as well as the matter of the other member of the crew being younger than sixty years of age.
since you guys have not suffered any setbacks during your career.
Dangerous arrogance combined with unbelievable but absolute ignorance lambourne, every time you open your mouth you put your foot further in.
No setbacks indeed, so two substantial carriers, (UK), going bust over my head and having to revert to the RHS once, due 'cut backs', don't count then? Wake up and grow up. The behavior you are so proud of on the flight deck is worthy of a seriously spoiled little child having a tantrum.
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the power hungry gummer crowd can't comprehend
I doubt if any of us older ones were even contemplating the 'power' thing, from what you have said here, you probably only have about five or six thousand hours 'in-command' on transport jets, our thoughts would be more along the lines of how about you building some valuable command experience, but then, being fat dumb and happy in a legacy carrier, you probably know it all already?
Last edited by parabellum; 15th Aug 2010 at 10:05.
There is nothing termed a CD arrival at LHR. A LAM3A arrival, maybe, but not a CD arrival. However, there is a continuous descent noise abatement procedure so I guess you were referring to that. Maybe the guys in the other seat were wondering what you are on about. I expect that CRM training featured at some time in your career, so its a shame that the principles of teamwork seem to have passed you by. Your antipathy and lack of support for the older captain is downright dangerous and completely unprofessional. Nobody is perfect, not even you, and your attitude is likely to make you and the guy unfortunate enough to fly with you another accident statistic. Its also a completely arrogant assumption that the over 60 pilot never had a career setback or stagnation. The airline industry has been through frequent recessions, several before you appeared on the scene, so your present setbacks are nothing new. Get a life.
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 20,208
Once upon a time, society taught respect for one's elders.
Whilst it is only reasonable for there to be a natural throughput of pilots, airlines will invariably prefer to retain rather than to recruit. Particularly should they ever have to face up to the responsibility of actually training their future workforce.
As for the childish comments made by lambourne, I can only surmise that the 'gummers', of whom he is so openly contemptuous, have considerably more patience and tolerance than he does.
Going out of your way to cause friction on the flight deck is utterly unnacceptable and wholly dangerous; this idiot should be removed from flying duties forthwith.
Methinks that F/O Lambourne has recently failed his command course or sim check or maybe came last in the egg and spoon race at the nursery school he attends.
), as I don't take much notice of the rest of the crew, anyway.
