Age 70 for international pilots?
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Well said, investing requires patience, time, and planning. Especially when the next decades will offer no free lunch thanks to the incompetence of our politicians.
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Who cares, unless you are one of those miserable moaners who I have to put up with every damn time I come on this site........no wonder our once respected profession is in tatters!
Sixty, Sixty-five, even seventy+, who gives a damn, as long as the guy is able to fly... and most importantly, wants to still fly, then let him! For all those moaners.....get a life. All the present Captains had to wait and now you will have to do the same; if you can't, then find alternative employment, as most of the guys from my generation have wanted to fly.....period!
Sixty, Sixty-five, even seventy+, who gives a damn, as long as the guy is able to fly... and most importantly, wants to still fly, then let him! For all those moaners.....get a life. All the present Captains had to wait and now you will have to do the same; if you can't, then find alternative employment, as most of the guys from my generation have wanted to fly.....period!
Mistrust in Management
Been flying since I was 17 years old (only little gliders then you know, but I loved it).
Started training as an aircraft Engineer when I was sixteen - and I loved that too.
Dreamed of flying aeroplanes since before I can remember.
Did a PPL and found it exciting but expensive.
Was a Flight Engineer for 18 years and found it to be a very rewarding and at times an exciting career.
Retrained as a professional Pilot and did a few years as an F/O on jets and was very fulfilled.
Got a command and I am back where I was dreaming at about the age of 2 years old I guess.
I think I will carry on enjoying myself for as long as I can - after all I didn't start this professional pilot stuff until way into my forties. Only 7500 hrs in the LH seat and I don't think it is unreasonable to sit there for a few thousand more - do you?
Regards
Exeng
Started training as an aircraft Engineer when I was sixteen - and I loved that too.
Dreamed of flying aeroplanes since before I can remember.
Did a PPL and found it exciting but expensive.
Was a Flight Engineer for 18 years and found it to be a very rewarding and at times an exciting career.
Retrained as a professional Pilot and did a few years as an F/O on jets and was very fulfilled.
Got a command and I am back where I was dreaming at about the age of 2 years old I guess.
I think I will carry on enjoying myself for as long as I can - after all I didn't start this professional pilot stuff until way into my forties. Only 7500 hrs in the LH seat and I don't think it is unreasonable to sit there for a few thousand more - do you?
Regards
Exeng
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I also know slaves who don't complain
Pilots who awnt to fly after 65 can fly for middle east airlines or open their business. This doesn't only concern pilots, why everybody is striving to reach retirement age? To do what they want after!!!!! Your vision of life is scaring
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Retirement
Always wanted to retire at 55 but life got in the way. Survived a couple of career reboots after the airlines I was woking for went out of business or just became to difficult to stay at. Then there is the issue of taking care of an aging and totally dependent parent, which aint cheap. So I will have to work a little longer but I would hope not past age 63. We shall see whats left of the social safety nets in the USA and where housing prices go and whether or not I can recover financially form the folly of 2008. As for the young guys good luck with your career, mines been interesting.
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Some interesting discussion going on here.
As a reasonably new pilot with only a few thousand hours and 33 years of age, i can well see why so many of my compatriots would like to see an early retirement age, it would certainly aid me in progressing my career, no question.
However, we are deluding ourselves if we think that the majority of us will be any different in 30 years time. Increasing cost of living, reducing wages etc etc are all leading to increased retirement ages and bugger all chance of a pension. I'm certain ill HAVE to work well into my 70's if I am to have any quality of life in another 40 years time.
Sure, i would much rather be on the riverside catching some nice trout when I'm 65 instead of working long hours for crap pay, but it aint going to happen. As for the safety aspect, well I've seen both oldies who couldn't handle the jandle and oldies who are a credit to the industry (and the human race). There is simply little way to judge all pilots on health. Its just too dam complicated. And you have the issue of that human rights and bias thing. Things will change undoubtedly and I have no idea how - and neither do you! but it isn't changing yet.
So, i really cant begrudge the old farts for sticking around, as they say,
If the goings good............
As a reasonably new pilot with only a few thousand hours and 33 years of age, i can well see why so many of my compatriots would like to see an early retirement age, it would certainly aid me in progressing my career, no question.
However, we are deluding ourselves if we think that the majority of us will be any different in 30 years time. Increasing cost of living, reducing wages etc etc are all leading to increased retirement ages and bugger all chance of a pension. I'm certain ill HAVE to work well into my 70's if I am to have any quality of life in another 40 years time.
Sure, i would much rather be on the riverside catching some nice trout when I'm 65 instead of working long hours for crap pay, but it aint going to happen. As for the safety aspect, well I've seen both oldies who couldn't handle the jandle and oldies who are a credit to the industry (and the human race). There is simply little way to judge all pilots on health. Its just too dam complicated. And you have the issue of that human rights and bias thing. Things will change undoubtedly and I have no idea how - and neither do you! but it isn't changing yet.
So, i really cant begrudge the old farts for sticking around, as they say,
If the goings good............
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I had to retire at 60, then they changed it to 65. I saw a lot of really competent pilots have to retire before me at age 60. It didn't seem right. The younger pilots want to upgrade, that is understandable, but it had nothing to do with safety. I flew with some pilots that were losing it at 55.
I am long gone now but when a pilot is no longer competent to fly an airliner it is only partly do to age. I know the physical is a joke but people are aging better than in the past.
I am long gone now but when a pilot is no longer competent to fly an airliner it is only partly do to age. I know the physical is a joke but people are aging better than in the past.
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At my company we have one captain over the age of 60, he's a fair employee and a good guy but it's a crap shoot with him. One day he aced a hydraulic failure on one of our aircraft but later he nearly stalled the plane during a circling approach with an FAA inspector on board (thank God for the FO).
Likewise my first captain when I started in the 135 world was 73, he was a great man full of knowledge and he taught me many valuable lessons - he also had a tendency to doze off during critical phases of flight.
I have all the respect in the world for the venerable pilots of yesteryear, but at some point it's best they realize they've reached the top of their game and retire with their dignity. All the decades of experience cannot counter the physical and mental deficiencies that naturally occur in the human body. I think 65 was a logical leap from 60, but I think at 70 we are wasting an otherwise valuable resource.
Whether a pilot has 20,000 hours or 2000 hours they can both make critical mistakes. At my company we call "experience" "tribal knowledge" and actively discourage it. If a pilot has a valid piece of knowledge to pass along it will be incorporated into pilot training.
These venerable gentlemen (and ladies) should be put to better use in an airline's training department or as a CFI passing their vast knowledge on to the next generation of aviators.
The economics that the freeze has created for aviation in the US is a touchy subject, but in all it's hurt the industry in the long run. So many otherwise skilled pilots have left the industry as their lives could no longer be put on hold for their place in the seniority list: these people needed the financial means to start their families and aviation could not do that as a pilot.
Aviation has become so unappealing due to this self-inflicted pay cut we continue to levy on the "young pilots" that fewer and fewer people can support themselves in the industry and the $80,000+ bill to get certificated makes no sense. And with this in mind what happens when the baby boomers die off? I think your love of aviation could eventually be the death of aviation. Even now I'm having trouble recruiting skilled pilots because many of those with the responsible characteristics I look for have fled the industry due to the lack of upward movement (and yes, I believe they're justified in thinking 10+ years in an industry is too long to wait for a liveable wage).
If you love to fly then by all means, fly. There are a lovely array of light aircraft for you and your friends to toodle around in and plenty of jobs more appropriate than a commercial airline captain. Why must you be commanding a 747 to be a pilot? Are you too good for the PA-44? If you're so experienced pass it on and stop griping about "unskilled new pilots" while claiming you're above teaching them how to fly. Share your experience and stop selfishly holding onto it.
Likewise my first captain when I started in the 135 world was 73, he was a great man full of knowledge and he taught me many valuable lessons - he also had a tendency to doze off during critical phases of flight.
I have all the respect in the world for the venerable pilots of yesteryear, but at some point it's best they realize they've reached the top of their game and retire with their dignity. All the decades of experience cannot counter the physical and mental deficiencies that naturally occur in the human body. I think 65 was a logical leap from 60, but I think at 70 we are wasting an otherwise valuable resource.
Whether a pilot has 20,000 hours or 2000 hours they can both make critical mistakes. At my company we call "experience" "tribal knowledge" and actively discourage it. If a pilot has a valid piece of knowledge to pass along it will be incorporated into pilot training.
These venerable gentlemen (and ladies) should be put to better use in an airline's training department or as a CFI passing their vast knowledge on to the next generation of aviators.
The economics that the freeze has created for aviation in the US is a touchy subject, but in all it's hurt the industry in the long run. So many otherwise skilled pilots have left the industry as their lives could no longer be put on hold for their place in the seniority list: these people needed the financial means to start their families and aviation could not do that as a pilot.
Aviation has become so unappealing due to this self-inflicted pay cut we continue to levy on the "young pilots" that fewer and fewer people can support themselves in the industry and the $80,000+ bill to get certificated makes no sense. And with this in mind what happens when the baby boomers die off? I think your love of aviation could eventually be the death of aviation. Even now I'm having trouble recruiting skilled pilots because many of those with the responsible characteristics I look for have fled the industry due to the lack of upward movement (and yes, I believe they're justified in thinking 10+ years in an industry is too long to wait for a liveable wage).
If you love to fly then by all means, fly. There are a lovely array of light aircraft for you and your friends to toodle around in and plenty of jobs more appropriate than a commercial airline captain. Why must you be commanding a 747 to be a pilot? Are you too good for the PA-44? If you're so experienced pass it on and stop griping about "unskilled new pilots" while claiming you're above teaching them how to fly. Share your experience and stop selfishly holding onto it.
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Islan Flyer, on the face of it, what you say would seem to make sense. Unfortunately there is no way near the space within training departments to accomodate all the older guys who want to stay in the game.
I work for a big LCC in Europe and they choose to staff the training department with 1000 Hr F/O's as SFI's. Once they have a command, they make them TRI's. Where is all of this valuable wisdome and experience coming from in our very large training department? I think they are probably cheap though.
I work for a big LCC in Europe and they choose to staff the training department with 1000 Hr F/O's as SFI's. Once they have a command, they make them TRI's. Where is all of this valuable wisdome and experience coming from in our very large training department? I think they are probably cheap though.
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Even now I'm having trouble recruiting skilled pilots because many of those with the responsible characteristics I look for have fled the industry due to the lack of upward movement
Why must you be commanding a 747 to be a pilot?
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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fewer and fewer people can support themselves in the industry and the $80,000+ bill to get certificated makes no sense.
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An instructor at my airline told me "European" (ICAO?) rules were changed to allow captains to downgrade to FO at 65 and continue to fly to 70. I also heard pilots in Australia can fly in airline ops as long as they can hold a medical.
Can anyone confirm either of these?
Can anyone confirm either of these?
I also heard pilots in Australia can fly in airline ops as long as they can hold a medical.
Can anyone confirm either of these?
Can anyone confirm either of these?
However, with regard to NZ - can't answer for Aus. - the CAA move the medical goalposts to suit themselves, I know of one pilot who has spent mega-dollars fighting them, been supported by Court action but still denied as appeal still follows appeal.
Personally I met the requirement for a CPL medical, as decided by the licensed medical examiner, who issued all the paperwork for a renewal certificate to be issued, but the NZ CAA demanded 'extra' tests due to my -then - age and then refused a CPL, but allowed a PPL.
Subsequently I decided not to pay their demands for extra tests when the PPL was due for renewal and recently opted for a Recreational Pilot Licence, for which the standard is a Bus Driver Medical - the recreational flying licence has many flying restrictions place upon it, but these are better than no flying at all - and the Land Transport Authority accepted my medical standard without restriction for the two year validity of their certificate, but the NZ CAA, who took many years of consultation before they signed off on the RPL medical standard, refused the two year period and demanded more expensive 'tests'.
I'm not paying, I'll buy a boat.
Dunno about Europe.
)
retirement age?
Like in most countries the governments are pushing the retirement age for everyone to 67 or more.
As we all know thats when you can began to receive your full normal government retirement benefits.
Professional pilots must quit by 60 to 65 depending on what you fly and where.
What happens during these 2-7 years? No income at all except what you have saved, etc. Or reduced retirement benefits from the time you can receive it.
How many have lost their "company retirement benefits" because their employer has gone bust?
I think that those that want to quit early..please do...and enjoy what you have for as long as you will have it. Its your life and I am not going to interfere and stop you.
But for those who want to continue and still pass all the test & medicals why not.
As we all know thats when you can began to receive your full normal government retirement benefits.
Professional pilots must quit by 60 to 65 depending on what you fly and where.
What happens during these 2-7 years? No income at all except what you have saved, etc. Or reduced retirement benefits from the time you can receive it.
How many have lost their "company retirement benefits" because their employer has gone bust?
I think that those that want to quit early..please do...and enjoy what you have for as long as you will have it. Its your life and I am not going to interfere and stop you.
But for those who want to continue and still pass all the test & medicals why not.
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Age 54, in 2 short weeks time, I am already a bit worried about senility, because, at the bottom of this page it says P31 of 36, and no matter how hard I try (36 is invisible) clicking on 32-35 OR last page, it keeps comming back to the top of page 31. . . . . . Getting Old Huh ? 
Younger colleagues who knock it, are always reminded by me, Hey guy, 2 choices, get old or get dead. Cannot speak for how good the latter is, but Hey, the former isn't THAT bad.
If I can keep passing the Medical/keep passing the Sim, I want to keep going till I drop.
Saving money/making plans for the future, was never my forte, but anyhow, I don't want to give up what I enjoy/what gets me (keeps me) out of bed in the morning, a career that has never felt like a "job", but rather a pleasant pastime, that albeit imposing certain responsibilities/restrictions on my life, nonetheless compensated more than fairly in personal satisfaction , & occasionaly quite well financially to boot. . . just because of a date on my birth certificate.
I have flown with some who were beyond senile in their 30's, if they can justify holding a medical, I am happy to be assessed in 11 years time "fairly" in comparison to them, if some yardstick is required.
Fortunately, for those of us who (God & Liver willing) wish to continue, the world economy is so fecked up, that we may even actually be welcome to do so.
Retirement is great if you stashed the cash (to enjoy it) I didn't, so for me it is a nightmare scenario.
Because of this , whilst I respect those holding opposing views, & wish for them the opportunity to retire as & when they wish, I merely ask in return they respect my views/circumstances.
Of course, a major success on euromillions & I am with you on the beach
barring that though, "onward & upward" it has to be.
Younger colleagues who knock it, are always reminded by me, Hey guy, 2 choices, get old or get dead. Cannot speak for how good the latter is, but Hey, the former isn't THAT bad.
If I can keep passing the Medical/keep passing the Sim, I want to keep going till I drop.
Saving money/making plans for the future, was never my forte, but anyhow, I don't want to give up what I enjoy/what gets me (keeps me) out of bed in the morning, a career that has never felt like a "job", but rather a pleasant pastime, that albeit imposing certain responsibilities/restrictions on my life, nonetheless compensated more than fairly in personal satisfaction , & occasionaly quite well financially to boot. . . just because of a date on my birth certificate.
I have flown with some who were beyond senile in their 30's, if they can justify holding a medical, I am happy to be assessed in 11 years time "fairly" in comparison to them, if some yardstick is required.
Fortunately, for those of us who (God & Liver willing) wish to continue, the world economy is so fecked up, that we may even actually be welcome to do so.
Retirement is great if you stashed the cash (to enjoy it) I didn't, so for me it is a nightmare scenario.
Because of this , whilst I respect those holding opposing views, & wish for them the opportunity to retire as & when they wish, I merely ask in return they respect my views/circumstances.
Of course, a major success on euromillions & I am with you on the beach
barring that though, "onward & upward" it has to be.
Just let me know who's flying big jets with 69yo pilots - I'll give them a miss.
but then .......... I'm suffering from EGBF - Electronic Gadget Brain Failure - so maybe it's Horses for Courses !
I will enjoy my retirement while i am young.