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Old 14th Sep 2010, 02:25   #481 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 115
...what kills is not the bullet

....it's the speed.

Who cares if he slept. That did not kill them. It was the unstable app.( if it is proven it was the case) So back to the topic and the real problem.
Where I work it used to be like that. Lots lots of unstable app with all its consequences , tragic some of them. It was until company culture , training tools , effective monitoring and people willing to make a change, that flying become more safe. When I hear about this case and all what has been mentioned I feel sad for the poor Indians that take public and privet transport. Until CORRUPTION, NEPOTISM BLA BLA BLA, disappears things will stay the same. Airplanes are SO safe that is why in India and other places as well, don't have the same number of tragedy's every year as they do with buses, trains and ferries.

Where there is a crack the root will grow in. Then is just a matter of time for the wall to collapse.

Remember snakes have no boobs, cats don't fly, birds don't bite, dogs have fur no feders.

Don't think to much:
UNSTABLE APPROACHES ARE NOT SAFE AND KILL PEOPLE!!!!
Don't think it wont happen to you.

Lets review:

Plan to be fully configured AND stable for instrument app at 1000 ft AAL. Stable at 500, if visual.

A/C in landing conf
Sink rate no more then 1100ft/min
Airspeed on target plus corrections according to AC type
Engines spooled up
No more that One dot above , below, right or left of GS / LOC
No more then 5 radials deviation left/right on a non precision app.
VASI PAPI no full Red / White.
Be sure A/C will land at the Touch Down Zone (TDZ)

Criteria not met: GO Around IS mandatory.

SO SIMPLE!
Now leave EGOS and Top Guns mentalities back home.
Be a Real Pilot and Stand for WHAT is right NOT WHO is right. If you do this your whining will be heard with respect. If not, go somewhere else, you don't belong here.

Last edited by VONKLUFFEN; 14th Sep 2010 at 02:39.
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Old 14th Sep 2010, 02:49   #482 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Johnstone Strait, BC
Age: 66
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Stable Approach

That sums it up in a nutshell!
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Old 16th Feb 2012, 13:19   #483 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: The VT- Country
Posts: 28
Report by DGCA

DGCA has released it's report on the accident...
http://www.dgca.nic.in/accident/reports/VT-AXV.pdf
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Old 16th Feb 2012, 14:27   #484 (permalink)
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Location: UK
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Password protected
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Old 16th Feb 2012, 14:30   #485 (permalink)
 
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Location: In some hotel downroute or in some hotel doing union negotiations.
Posts: 2,786
No password required here.
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Old 16th Feb 2012, 14:34   #486 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In a far better place
Posts: 2,398
Unable to access. Long and short, anything new other than overspeed, overshoot, and unstable approach?
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Old 16th Feb 2012, 15:01   #487 (permalink)
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Well, denti, it does for we lesser mortals

Any chance you could upload it to a site and provide a link?
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Old 16th Feb 2012, 15:05   #488 (permalink)


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I'm a lesser mortal and it simply opens a reader pdf file with no password required!!

191 Pages though!
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Old 16th Feb 2012, 15:26   #489 (permalink)
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OK - if ANY of the master race could save and upload please I would be humbly and deferentially grateful.
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Old 16th Feb 2012, 15:33   #490 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Kentucky
Age: 68
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Accident Report Link

http://www.fearoflanding.com/files/2...rashReport.pdf
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Old 16th Feb 2012, 15:42   #491 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: London
Posts: 1,275
Er, dunno if this is easier. No password here.....
How would I "upload" a pdf to somewhere so that you could get at it?

http://www.dgca.nic.in/accident/reports/VT-AXV.pdf
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Old 16th Feb 2012, 15:47   #492 (permalink)
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Still rolling around in the inferior gutter here, AO. You could try Google Docs?
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Old 16th Feb 2012, 15:57   #493 (permalink)
 
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Location: Wor Yerm
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Posts: 2,319
Well done to the DGCA.

I think the DGCA should have a pat on the back for this one. Obviously there will be elements which you can disagree with and others which should be included. Personally, I liked the way they addressed the cultural issues regarding AI vs AI Express and also Locals vs Foreigners issue. On the negative side, I think the possible reasons as to why the captain continued with a hopelessly hot and high approach were not gone into in sufficient depth. Some were addressed, such as the 'counselling' and go-around reporting but I think there has to be more to this incident than that. But that also says something about the quality of the report. Only very rarely do reports come from this part of the world which contain sufficient facts (History of Flight) which enables an alternative view to be held.
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Old 16th Feb 2012, 16:09   #494 (permalink)
 
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BOAC.
I've put it on goggledocs. Open to the public. A first for me. Have messaged you the location.
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Old 16th Feb 2012, 16:30   #495 (permalink)
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AO - that was kind of you. As it happens I had a copy from another PPRuner (thanks EC) and it is on view for the lesser mortals here. (I hope!)
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Old 16th Feb 2012, 16:42   #496 (permalink)
 
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From page ix of the Executive Summary:

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Old 16th Feb 2012, 16:57   #497 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: usa
Posts: 122
Boy, what I really get from this report is, the captain for whatever reason (probably sleeping to long and not alert for landing), wasn't aware of his height on the approach until it was way to late and the first officer was just not effective at making the captain aware of his altitude during the approach. Then the capt. Really screwed up by pushing it in. Really sad, could happen to any one of us if we try and rescue things too much, but he was really really high on that approach and didn't seem to understand until 3 miles he was on the false glide.
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Old 16th Feb 2012, 17:17   #498 (permalink)
 
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The man was never on the GS.

Yes it can happen to anyone that feels they are impervious to mistakes.
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Old 16th Feb 2012, 18:13   #499 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: usa
Posts: 122
It appears he was on the false glid slope at 9 degrees rather than the 3 degrees. That's why the ap was flying the glide slope descending at nearly 1700 fpm. The first time I think it dawns on him is whe the fo states the runway in site below us. That's when he turns off the ap and starts descending at almost 3 k a minute.
I wouldn't think he was in a mental state that he could do no wrong at this point. It really appears he was way behind the situation and it lead to tunnel vision, which is why I say it can happen to any one of us. The lesson to learn is effective communication is key. After waking the fo didn't properly let the captain know about the state of the descent profile, the captain didn't properly understand why his fo was telling him to go around. This crash is a perfect example of poor cockpit communication, the barrier being the capt woke up too late to fully get his brain running properly. Tunnel vision in critical places can happen to anybody and pilots really need to recognize when someone is in this state and know how to jolt them out of it and bring them back in the game.
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Old 16th Feb 2012, 18:23   #500 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 488
The report is suitably critical like the recent one from Pakistan. The investigators have done a good job and the failings of the unfortunate crew and their employer are well and truly exposed.

Equally I think this is a tragic example of what can happen. You are a pilot with your national airline, which for reason's largely beyond your control no longer offers you further employment. You work your way through jobs on several continents ending up with the low cost offshoot of another national carrier.

On paper you are well rested. In reality you have been rushing round the world trying to find a better job. On a night turn just back from leave you are so exhausted you fall asleep.

The co-pilot who resents not already being a captain watches from the sidelines as you monumentally screw up the approach. He has already mentally started drafting yet another report about incompetent foreign captains. He makes an attempt to get you to go-around at the last minute when he realizes you have really lost the plot.

In panic you make the screw up even worse and try and take off again after deploying the reversers. Your last words as you realize your mistake, this is going to be.... a big one, you know you are doomed. Personally I cannot help feeling a bit sorry for him and very sad for his passengers.
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