Ash clouds threaten air traffic
moll
moluscan, proof that the lunatics are running the asylum!
There is a difference between doing "things right" and doing "the right thing". Former is management, latter is leadership.
I cannot understand why Special VFR has been stopped in CTRs - or are they trying to stop operators departing/arriving these airports visually during the ban?
Get real - can anyone please tell me why a spamcan cannot be given a SVFR through these CTRs on a lovely day like today.
At a political level, we desparately need a peaceful revolution.
Channel Island airspace
Replying to #906 ( "Worth just noting this morning ...it is possible to fly between the islands in the Channel Islands where both Aurigny & Blue Islands are continuing to operate their schedules" ) , there is a mad twist to this story - there now is no way in or out of CI Zone for VFR GA flghts. On Thursday it was closed (no IFR or SVFR), but on Friday common sense was applied and a VFR lane class D for VFR created by NOTAM to 50North. I flew to London intending to return today but now some jobsworth has decided that they didnt have the power to change airspace after all so now no VFR movements in or out of the whole CI zone, while GA and commercial flights continue within the zone. This is just complete madness with regulations and ar** covering taking precedence over any real analysis of safety issues.
I am on this forum as a way of making my own assessment of risk to piston engines at low level and I make my own decision whether safe to fly as I have to with every flight.
What is lacking is proper information on 1) what are the particle concentrations grams/m3 at different levels. 2) what is a safe concentration for jet engines and for piston engines. The information may be poor but it needs the best scientists in the field to come up with best estimates. If it is left to regulators just applying a 'precautionary principle then we may not fly for months.
Replying to #906 ( "Worth just noting this morning ...it is possible to fly between the islands in the Channel Islands where both Aurigny & Blue Islands are continuing to operate their schedules" ) , there is a mad twist to this story - there now is no way in or out of CI Zone for VFR GA flghts. On Thursday it was closed (no IFR or SVFR), but on Friday common sense was applied and a VFR lane class D for VFR created by NOTAM to 50North. I flew to London intending to return today but now some jobsworth has decided that they didnt have the power to change airspace after all so now no VFR movements in or out of the whole CI zone, while GA and commercial flights continue within the zone. This is just complete madness with regulations and ar** covering taking precedence over any real analysis of safety issues.
I am on this forum as a way of making my own assessment of risk to piston engines at low level and I make my own decision whether safe to fly as I have to with every flight.
What is lacking is proper information on 1) what are the particle concentrations grams/m3 at different levels. 2) what is a safe concentration for jet engines and for piston engines. The information may be poor but it needs the best scientists in the field to come up with best estimates. If it is left to regulators just applying a 'precautionary principle then we may not fly for months.
There is a difference between doing "things right" and doing "the right thing". Former is management, latter is leadership.
I cannot understand why Special VFR has been stopped in CTRs - or are they trying to stop operators departing/arriving these airports visually during the ban?
Get real - can anyone please tell me why a spamcan cannot be given a SVFR through these CTRs on a lovely day like today.
At a political level, we desparately need a peaceful revolution.
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Well, the Dutch BALPA is now voicing its disgust about the situation, their lead man saying 'I can see from here till Denmark, not a cloud in the sky'.
But from the officials...nothing. How can there be such a lack of information from the UK? What is happening? How much ash is there? How much ash is harmful? We hear nothing! Why? Who is afraid f what? What needs to be covered up?
Anther joke is that all VFR traffic is cancelled in Holland. Small aviation businesses are loosing money needlessly, except of course the helicopters needed for the camera work of some popular bike race. They get a permit to fly. Come on guys, this is a joke.
But from the officials...nothing. How can there be such a lack of information from the UK? What is happening? How much ash is there? How much ash is harmful? We hear nothing! Why? Who is afraid f what? What needs to be covered up?
Anther joke is that all VFR traffic is cancelled in Holland. Small aviation businesses are loosing money needlessly, except of course the helicopters needed for the camera work of some popular bike race. They get a permit to fly. Come on guys, this is a joke.
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Test Flights?
KLM appear to have carried out a number of test flights this morning. Condor have had a few flights into and out of Frankfurt and Air France have sennt up a A320 from Paris.
Are there any plans for test flights in the UK to take place ?
80/-
Are there any plans for test flights in the UK to take place ?
80/-
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Where do these "decisions" originate
Try comparing the airports open with the UK met office ash cloud forecasts. I see a remarkable resemblence although the forecast is altitude specific.
What I think we need, and probably sooner rather than later given that Iceland is a string of volvanoes, is a means to establish ash risk v. altitude and time. With what we know, I can understand DLH flying under the ash in dry air, I have difficulty understanding KLM apparently flying through it.
If I was head of an airline I would put up a lot of money into Qinetiq/Cranfield/DLR etc to take air samples a.s.a.p. We can't afford to wait for governments to get back to work on monday, and then have indecision from lack of info.
DLH, how high can yr Junkers climb? Maybe you can do it yourselves!
What I think we need, and probably sooner rather than later given that Iceland is a string of volvanoes, is a means to establish ash risk v. altitude and time. With what we know, I can understand DLH flying under the ash in dry air, I have difficulty understanding KLM apparently flying through it.
If I was head of an airline I would put up a lot of money into Qinetiq/Cranfield/DLR etc to take air samples a.s.a.p. We can't afford to wait for governments to get back to work on monday, and then have indecision from lack of info.
DLH, how high can yr Junkers climb? Maybe you can do it yourselves!
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LOL@squawk.
Come on guys. Just charter an old Titan Airways 737. Let them fly for ten hours through the nastiest fluff of vulcanic smoke they can find. Inspect the engine et voila, make a decision. Whatever happens, that will be much cheaper than just sitting around and waiting, burning cash.
Come on guys. Just charter an old Titan Airways 737. Let them fly for ten hours through the nastiest fluff of vulcanic smoke they can find. Inspect the engine et voila, make a decision. Whatever happens, that will be much cheaper than just sitting around and waiting, burning cash.
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We just need some definition of how much ash can be suspended in a given quantity of air without becoming a problem.
If that concentration is zero ppm, then so be it. Ops must be suspended until every single ash particle has left the atmosphere.
On the other hand, I suspect a safe limit could be established initially and an ongoing period of careful monitoring of aircraft engines and systems put in place to build a solid knowledge base.
I think the best, in fact the only, way to discover this with any degree of confidence, is to fly.
This ought to commence immediately so that we can quickly ascertain 'safe' ash levels and also to discover if particular models of a/c engine are more susceptible than others.
There may also be other problems, perhaps related to pitot static and other systems.
Again, we can't model this sort of thing. Aircraft will have to fly in it- empty if neccessary.
The data thus gathered will be useful should this sort of thing happen again.
If that concentration is zero ppm, then so be it. Ops must be suspended until every single ash particle has left the atmosphere.
On the other hand, I suspect a safe limit could be established initially and an ongoing period of careful monitoring of aircraft engines and systems put in place to build a solid knowledge base.
I think the best, in fact the only, way to discover this with any degree of confidence, is to fly.
This ought to commence immediately so that we can quickly ascertain 'safe' ash levels and also to discover if particular models of a/c engine are more susceptible than others.
There may also be other problems, perhaps related to pitot static and other systems.
Again, we can't model this sort of thing. Aircraft will have to fly in it- empty if neccessary.
The data thus gathered will be useful should this sort of thing happen again.
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Judging by the ash film that has settled on my car overnight, you would have to be a total moron to be flying even a GA aircraft in these conditions.
It might not melt the ash in a GA aircraft, but the air filter will sure be blocked. Not to mention flying with carb heat on, bypassing the filter...
Demands for scientific validation are valid, but have to be realistic - do we have the means of sampling to the extent that is required?
The scientist on the Dornier was privy to the air sample readings that he presumably took. What additional validation are the nay-sayers actually seeking from him? He was hardly reactionary.
To those who think that operating in the mild ash conditions across Europe is sensible or safe, what engineer do you think would permit the despatch of that F18s with engine conditions visibly as they were? Engineering costs would far exceed the small benefit of moving a few people around, as only 1-2 sectors would be possible before engine overhauls!
The potential effect on jobs is understandable, but I get the impression that many posters to this board are either no involved in aviation at all or have no conservatism in the area of flight safety
It might not melt the ash in a GA aircraft, but the air filter will sure be blocked. Not to mention flying with carb heat on, bypassing the filter...
Demands for scientific validation are valid, but have to be realistic - do we have the means of sampling to the extent that is required?
The scientist on the Dornier was privy to the air sample readings that he presumably took. What additional validation are the nay-sayers actually seeking from him? He was hardly reactionary.
To those who think that operating in the mild ash conditions across Europe is sensible or safe, what engineer do you think would permit the despatch of that F18s with engine conditions visibly as they were? Engineering costs would far exceed the small benefit of moving a few people around, as only 1-2 sectors would be possible before engine overhauls!
The potential effect on jobs is understandable, but I get the impression that many posters to this board are either no involved in aviation at all or have no conservatism in the area of flight safety
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Well, the Dutch BALPA is now voicing its disgust about the situation, their lead man saying 'I can see from here till Denmark, not a cloud in the sky'.
But from the officials...nothing. How can there be such a lack of information from the UK? What is happening? How much ash is there? How much ash is harmful? We hear nothing! Why? Who is afraid f what? What needs to be covered up?
Anther joke is that all VFR traffic is cancelled in Holland. Small aviation businesses are loosing money needlessly, except of course the helicopters needed for the camera work of some popular bike race. They get a permit to fly. Come on guys, this is a joke.
But from the officials...nothing. How can there be such a lack of information from the UK? What is happening? How much ash is there? How much ash is harmful? We hear nothing! Why? Who is afraid f what? What needs to be covered up?
Anther joke is that all VFR traffic is cancelled in Holland. Small aviation businesses are loosing money needlessly, except of course the helicopters needed for the camera work of some popular bike race. They get a permit to fly. Come on guys, this is a joke.
Time for a political change, I believe.
The airline companies and other clear thinking individuals have my sincere sympathy.
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My wife assures me she saw a yellow jet overhead mid morning just north of the Brize Norton CTR
There was a DHL plane flown into Lasham this morning - probably that ?
80/-
There was a DHL plane flown into Lasham this morning - probably that ?
80/-
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Re-Heat, I trust that you did not start your car because of all that ash? And if you did, your car is now totally wrecked? Or those ten KLM jets that are buzzing happily through the skies, they must be a write off according to you?
Please, come with facts. This speculation has cost already hundreds of millions.
Please, come with facts. This speculation has cost already hundreds of millions.
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Belgian airspace now even prohibits VFR flights
As per latest NOTAM:
So no more light A/C, no more glider flights (not even winch launched!)
Of course pipeline control flights are not as vulnerable as other GA A/C!!
I guess all your car engines will soon get stuck by all this ash??
Don't they realise that the gas burners of those manned free balloons can get clogged as well?
How long will this lunacy continue??
OPERATORS ARE ADVISED THAT AFFECTED AREAS ARE CLOSED FOR VFR FLIGHTS. POLICE, SAR, HEMS, MANNED FREE BALLOON AND PIPELINE CONTROL FLIGHTS ARE EXEMPTED.
Of course pipeline control flights are not as vulnerable as other GA A/C!!
I guess all your car engines will soon get stuck by all this ash??
Don't they realise that the gas burners of those manned free balloons can get clogged as well?
How long will this lunacy continue??
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Ash on cars
If you are in the UK, please go out and check your car if it was parked outdoors last night.
The volcanic ash is clearly visible today and it looks very abrasive indeed, golden colour, very fine, never seen something like that in the UK before
.
The volcanic ash is clearly visible today and it looks very abrasive indeed, golden colour, very fine, never seen something like that in the UK before
.
Judging by the ash film that has settled on my car overnight, you would have to be a total moron to be flying even a GA aircraft in these conditions.
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Re-Heat, I trust that you did not start your car because of all that ash? And if you did, your car is now totally wrecked? Or those ten KLM jets that are buzzing happily through the skies, they must be a write off according to you?
411A - succinctly explain what the FAA did around the time of Mt St Helens please? And also around Anchorage. Do you come up with little other than asinine comments against Europeans or do you have anything substantive to add to the debate?
Sabinaboy,
Car engines have air filters, jet engines do not.
The issue isn't that jet engines will fail because of the ash, but they will wear out in 100's of hours instead of 10000's of hours. In an industry that makes single digit operating margins in good years it would be unsustainable.
You might want to go flying now because you fear bankruptsy, but flying now may well have the same effect.
Lets wait until we see the results of the test flights.
LD
Car engines have air filters, jet engines do not.
The issue isn't that jet engines will fail because of the ash, but they will wear out in 100's of hours instead of 10000's of hours. In an industry that makes single digit operating margins in good years it would be unsustainable.
You might want to go flying now because you fear bankruptsy, but flying now may well have the same effect.
Lets wait until we see the results of the test flights.
LD
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What is Icelandair up to?
Correction, appears the flights are with Pax.
ETA (CET): 17.35 (1 acf), 18.35 (2 acf) og 19.35 (1 acf)
Also, SAS are considering 4 flights from the US east coast
to Trondheim today.
M
ETA (CET): 17.35 (1 acf), 18.35 (2 acf) og 19.35 (1 acf)
Also, SAS are considering 4 flights from the US east coast
to Trondheim today.
M