Another Air Berlin incident in Nuremberg..
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 52
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Another Air Berlin incident in Nuremberg..
Ab and snow don't go well together
Incident: Air Berlin B738 at Nuremberg on Jan 8th 2010, went off paved surface
An Air Berlin Boeing 737-800, registration D-ABKA flight AB-6777 from Nuremberg to Dusseldorf (Germany) with 133 people on board, went off paved surface of runway 10 at low speed, only the left hand main gear barely remained on the paved surface. No injuries and no damages are reported.
Nuremberg Airport reported, that the airplane to Dortmund was taxiing to line up on the runway, when it skidded off the paved surface and came to a stop about 1.5 meters off the runway. The passengers disembarked via stairs.
Air Berlin reported briefly, that flight AB-6777 registration D-ABKA to Dusseldorf was involved, no injuries, no damages.
The airport was closed for about two hours and reopened shortly past midnight.
Metars:
EDDN 082150Z 36008KT 7000 -SN OVC022 M05/M07 Q1007 RESN R10/590293
EDDN 082120Z 36007KT 3500 SN OVC022 M05/M07 Q1007 R10/590293
EDDN 082050Z 01008KT 7000 -SN OVC022 M05/M07 Q1007 R10/590293 NOSIG
EDDN 082020Z 36009KT 7000 -SN BKN022 BKN050 M05/M07 Q1007 R10/590293 NOSIG
EDDN 081950Z 01008KT 5000 -SN BKN027 BKN050 M05/M07 Q1008 R10/590293 NOSIG
EDDN 081920Z 01008KT 5000 -SN SCT025 BKN050 BKN130 M05/M07 Q1008 R10/590293 NOSIG
EDDN 081850Z 01009KT 5000 -SN FEW010 SCT025 BKN050 M05/M07 Q1008 R10/590293 NOSIG
EDDN 081820Z 01008KT 5000 -SN FEW010 BKN020 M05/M07 Q1008 R10/590293 NOSIG
Relevant NOTAM:
B0024/10 - RWY 10/28 CLSD. 08 JAN 21:18 2010 UNTIL 08 JAN 23:59 2010 ESTIMATED. CREATED:
08 JAN 21:19 2010
Map (Courtesy Google Earth):
Incident: Air Berlin B738 at Nuremberg on Jan 8th 2010, went off paved surface
An Air Berlin Boeing 737-800, registration D-ABKA flight AB-6777 from Nuremberg to Dusseldorf (Germany) with 133 people on board, went off paved surface of runway 10 at low speed, only the left hand main gear barely remained on the paved surface. No injuries and no damages are reported.
Nuremberg Airport reported, that the airplane to Dortmund was taxiing to line up on the runway, when it skidded off the paved surface and came to a stop about 1.5 meters off the runway. The passengers disembarked via stairs.
Air Berlin reported briefly, that flight AB-6777 registration D-ABKA to Dusseldorf was involved, no injuries, no damages.
The airport was closed for about two hours and reopened shortly past midnight.
Metars:
EDDN 082150Z 36008KT 7000 -SN OVC022 M05/M07 Q1007 RESN R10/590293
EDDN 082120Z 36007KT 3500 SN OVC022 M05/M07 Q1007 R10/590293
EDDN 082050Z 01008KT 7000 -SN OVC022 M05/M07 Q1007 R10/590293 NOSIG
EDDN 082020Z 36009KT 7000 -SN BKN022 BKN050 M05/M07 Q1007 R10/590293 NOSIG
EDDN 081950Z 01008KT 5000 -SN BKN027 BKN050 M05/M07 Q1008 R10/590293 NOSIG
EDDN 081920Z 01008KT 5000 -SN SCT025 BKN050 BKN130 M05/M07 Q1008 R10/590293 NOSIG
EDDN 081850Z 01009KT 5000 -SN FEW010 SCT025 BKN050 M05/M07 Q1008 R10/590293 NOSIG
EDDN 081820Z 01008KT 5000 -SN FEW010 BKN020 M05/M07 Q1008 R10/590293 NOSIG
Relevant NOTAM:
B0024/10 - RWY 10/28 CLSD. 08 JAN 21:18 2010 UNTIL 08 JAN 23:59 2010 ESTIMATED. CREATED:
08 JAN 21:19 2010
Map (Courtesy Google Earth):
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: FUBAR
Posts: 3,348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yep but different reasons for overuns or mere taxy incidents.
The 800 is very undertyred in the nose gear dept courtesy of the space available in the wheel well bay, which I believe is no more commodious than in -200 days. Even turning on dry tarmac, nose wheel slippage is not unheard of courtesy of the dinky nosewheels, so you can imagine how well it copes with a contaminated surface.
The runway overruns are another thing, and the two recent ones very different circumstances, but the -800 is not exactly over-endowed in terms of real world braking performance either.
The 800 is very undertyred in the nose gear dept courtesy of the space available in the wheel well bay, which I believe is no more commodious than in -200 days. Even turning on dry tarmac, nose wheel slippage is not unheard of courtesy of the dinky nosewheels, so you can imagine how well it copes with a contaminated surface.
The runway overruns are another thing, and the two recent ones very different circumstances, but the -800 is not exactly over-endowed in terms of real world braking performance either.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Poland
Age: 69
Posts: 224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And the purpose of starting this thread reporting a non event as a probationary ppruner is what? To highlight that it is slippery out there? Get a life - this is a non event!
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: FUBAR
Posts: 3,348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In all honesty, don't have a problem.
It is a good heads up for all concerned, that a company who have already had a recent incident, can still be caught out. Even with crew being (I am really sure ) careful, an excursion is still a possibility.
Maybe a little sarcasm in his text, but best we all know, and be 110% careful out there to avoid "starring" on PPRuNe (God forbid
)
It is a good heads up for all concerned, that a company who have already had a recent incident, can still be caught out. Even with crew being (I am really sure ) careful, an excursion is still a possibility.
Maybe a little sarcasm in his text, but best we all know, and be 110% careful out there to avoid "starring" on PPRuNe (God forbid
)
Brought a smile to my face though at the end
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
pressman,
Easy there! I'm not going to comment on our pay scale, but calling Air Berlin Pilots undertrained and inexperienced is quite a statement! I'd be glad to hear where you got that information from? Have you ever flown for Air Berlin or done any kind of training there? I wouldn't exactly call an 18000 hour (ON TYPE) Captain inexperienced, would you? Even our least experienced First Officers have at least 1500 hours on type. In case you haven't noticed: Air Berlin celebrated its 30th anniversary last year, an age that a lot of other companies like Ryanair or Easyjet have yet to reach. If you take a look at our safety record you might want to rethink your statement. Thirty years of flying without an accident are definitely NOT pointing towards inexperienced and undertrained pilots!
A lot of our TRI/TREs came out of the Air Force, having enjoyed quite some training during their military career. Some of these guys have been working for the company for more than twenty years, constantly working on improving the training and procedures.
Before I joined Air Berlin I've had three other airline jobs (one of them was flying for NetJets Europe, which is not exactly an airline job, but they do pride themselves with recruiting only the most experienced pilots, right?), but the training for Air Berlin was by far the most demanding and thorough that I've had so far.
It is not very professional to call colleagues inexperienced and undertrained in public; you have no way of knowing anybodys background! Do you know the circumstances of that incident in Nürnberg or the one in Dortmund? Do you have any information about the level of experience of the crew? I wouldn't think so, so how can you make such an assertion?
By the way: What was the third incident you mentioned? Don't tell me that you call a rejected take-off due to an indication problem with an uneventful return to the ramp an incident of the same magnitude like an overrun? What has that got to do with experience?
Easy there! I'm not going to comment on our pay scale, but calling Air Berlin Pilots undertrained and inexperienced is quite a statement! I'd be glad to hear where you got that information from? Have you ever flown for Air Berlin or done any kind of training there? I wouldn't exactly call an 18000 hour (ON TYPE) Captain inexperienced, would you? Even our least experienced First Officers have at least 1500 hours on type. In case you haven't noticed: Air Berlin celebrated its 30th anniversary last year, an age that a lot of other companies like Ryanair or Easyjet have yet to reach. If you take a look at our safety record you might want to rethink your statement. Thirty years of flying without an accident are definitely NOT pointing towards inexperienced and undertrained pilots!
A lot of our TRI/TREs came out of the Air Force, having enjoyed quite some training during their military career. Some of these guys have been working for the company for more than twenty years, constantly working on improving the training and procedures.
Before I joined Air Berlin I've had three other airline jobs (one of them was flying for NetJets Europe, which is not exactly an airline job, but they do pride themselves with recruiting only the most experienced pilots, right?), but the training for Air Berlin was by far the most demanding and thorough that I've had so far.
It is not very professional to call colleagues inexperienced and undertrained in public; you have no way of knowing anybodys background! Do you know the circumstances of that incident in Nürnberg or the one in Dortmund? Do you have any information about the level of experience of the crew? I wouldn't think so, so how can you make such an assertion?
By the way: What was the third incident you mentioned? Don't tell me that you call a rejected take-off due to an indication problem with an uneventful return to the ramp an incident of the same magnitude like an overrun? What has that got to do with experience?
Guest
Posts: n/a
NG Jockey , I will give you the benefit of not being a native english speaker and explain for you . The second part of my post clearly states that this comment is "tongue in cheek" .That means that I am not really serious , and I also state that "it could happen to anybody"
The point that i was making is that AB had three minor incidents in a few days and it attracted very little comment - rightly so . On the other hand we at ryanair had an equally minor incident at prestwick - low speed skid off taxiway covered in ice - and it attracted all sorts of attacks on our professionalism , I find these double standards hard to take and unacceptable .
Any "mishap" is one too many, but it is not professional to sneer at each other either. Or do you find satisfaction in the fact that, at last, it has happened to another airline too?
I have flown with many former AB guys at ryanair and they are all very proficient , but you do need to talk to the guy who was at 140kts on a 25mile final into alicante the other week , nearly a bloody pile up behind him .
So I don't know whatever happened in Alicante the other day nor whatever the reasons of that crew were to slow down to 140kts on a 25 miles final, but what is your point here? Is that supposed to be some kind of evidence that they are obviously not proficient?
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: schermoney and left front seat
Age: 57
Posts: 2,438
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So I don't know whatever happened in Alicante the other day nor whatever the reasons of that crew were to slow down to 140kts on a 25 miles final, but what is your point here? Is that supposed to be some kind of evidence that they are obviously not proficient?
Bloody germans, can´t take a joke. (quoting Capt.Edmund Blackadder)
Before you go at me: thiz wazz a chokk!
