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Old 30th Nov 2009, 11:34   #81 (permalink)
 
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Oh please... this conspiracy garbage is worse than Jet Blast.
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Old 30th Nov 2009, 11:36   #82 (permalink)
 
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FedEx und UPS stop in Almaty (Kazakhstan) to take fuel. Avient wanted to stop in Bischkek enroute to Liège. What's wrong with that ?

We have to stop somewhere between PVG and Europe in order to have a decent payload.
Nothing strange from this side. I don't know how you jump to the conclusion that they were not carrying electronics like everybody else.
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Old 30th Nov 2009, 12:12   #83 (permalink)
 
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DC-ATE . . ."You might have loss of power on an engine past V1 and have 10,000 feet of concrete in front of you. Are you going to continue? Book says yes, but I say no. Again.....it's a judgment call. But...we digress."
Be careful with that. When past V1 at MTOW your higher speed may exceed your braking capacity. The "extra" pavement is no longer an assurance of stopping before the end. You just keep rolling and rolling while standing on the brakes.
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Old 30th Nov 2009, 14:52   #84 (permalink)
 
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very few people, the ones with their many own special techniques in the cockpit, ague that an abort beyond V1 can be done by use of thrust reverse only until speed is below V1 again, then start to add brakes and hope that enough runway is available.
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Old 30th Nov 2009, 14:56   #85 (permalink)
 
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Avient wanted to stop in Bischkek enroute to Liège. What's wrong with that ?
Are we even sure that this AC was going to Liège ?
Some source are talking about Harare.
But the idea stays the same I guess ...
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Old 30th Nov 2009, 15:17   #86 (permalink)
 
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Final destination.....

I expect that CAA China would have granted traffic rights on the basis that final destination for this flight and cargo was Harare on a third/fourth freedom basis with a tech stop via Bishkek.

In reality I would imagine cargo was destined for Europe
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Old 30th Nov 2009, 15:22   #87 (permalink)
 
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Shangai to Harare via Biskhek...Hummm, doesnt sound so much plausible to me, cause in that supposed route much more southern fields goes suitable, but of course its only my personnal opinion...
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Old 30th Nov 2009, 16:19   #88 (permalink)
 
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Having arrived back from Shanghai last night i can tell you that the current backlog of cargo in China is huge, this has been caused by airlines like Cathy etc etc taking freighters out of service during the slow down, then a huge pre-christmas boom in air cargo bookings.

This has led to freight agents chartering airliners and other airlines also chartering in hardware to try and shift the backlog at a hugely inflated price.

Space is at a premium at the moment so the chartering of aircraft ex China aint no mystery....still makes much better reading to speculate that the freight is illegal arms.
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Old 30th Nov 2009, 17:15   #89 (permalink)
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FedEx und UPS stop in Almaty (Kazakhstan) to take fuel. Avient wanted to stop in Bischkek enroute to Liège. What's wrong with that ?
We've used Tashkent (Uzbekistan) in the past, also a very acceptable fuel stop with good facilities, delivering consumer electronics to EU.
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Old 30th Nov 2009, 17:42   #90 (permalink)
cws
 
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A colleague was in PVG during that event and told me the MD11 rotated very late almost at the end of the runway and barely made it into the air-app 10ft.
Cargo shifting unlikely? I arrived once in Europe coming from PVG with all floor locks not up, my good luck was that the aft lower comp was completely full and the cargo only shifted a few cm, but banged itself up in the process of doing so. So I do not rule that out coming from these parts of the world.

Flying the 11 I have to say it is a challenge and needs excellent maintenance and highly proficient crews, both I would raise to question, considering the creative ways of the operator (Z Reg, British Comp etc....)
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Old 30th Nov 2009, 17:53   #91 (permalink)


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Angel Good old boy died.

Shaun Sheble from Kingman,AZ was aboard that MD-11 and lost his life. I am
close to the family.
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Old 30th Nov 2009, 17:54   #92 (permalink)
 
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I cannot believe the conspiracy crap that some of you people espouse.
Every week last year we departed HKG MTOW and stopped in Karaganda, Kazakhstan for fuel uplift on the way to LUX.
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Old 30th Nov 2009, 18:20   #93 (permalink)
 
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cws

You might see fit to question the proficency of the crew involved because of their involvement with this operator but I can assure you that these people were highly skilled crew who knew the MD11 very well, as I knew them. I flew with them all and knew them well and it saddens me that people like you should attempt to question their ability at a time like this.
As for the rest of you, I question your abilities to think straight in times like this. If you knew anything of the cargo side of the industry you would not even question the reason for a tech stop in one of the 'stans en-route to Europe from the far east. If any of you had carried cargo from the far east you would also appreciate that at this time of year, everything comes in almost standard cardboard boxes that are so well built on pallets they almost make the pallet locks redundant, so 'cargo shifting' is not and never will be an issue. By all means question the operator and his past history and maybe the underhand methods he employs, but stay away from the crew, they were good friends and exceptional pilots who I had the pleasure to know and fly with and all had the ability to deal with 'situations' in a calm and proffesional manner. Our thoughts should be with their families at this time and we should be thankfull that the FAA and NTSB have become involved and that at the very least there will be answers to a few questions that otherwise would be kept from us.
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Old 30th Nov 2009, 18:40   #94 (permalink)
 
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Md11s Grounded

Any truth to the rumors the Chinese registered MD11s are now grounded pending the results of the accident investigation???
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Old 30th Nov 2009, 18:58   #95 (permalink)
 
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God there is some claptrap going on here. Get a life for Heaven's sake.

Bishkek is a most acceptable airport for a tech stop/crew change en route Far East to Europe. We used it on the 10 as well. We were carrying bottles of Beaujolais - I daresay it was laced with biotoxins aimed at the third world proletariat - failing that, it was just wine for the Far East.

It would be nice to ease up and consider that some hard working (everybody working for this company works hard) guys were killed doing their jobs.

Their families have the prospect of a Christmas without loved ones, even for the injured who will be scarred in more ways than physical.

Whatever Mr Smith does or doesn't do, believe me, his crews are grafters doing the best they can. I've never been so physically tired as when I flew for them. I just hope that fatigue was not a contributory factor.

There are independent professionals involved investigating this tragic accident. How about just letting them get on with it, without these ridiculous conspiracy theories.

If you are so engrossed in Machiavellian plots, write yourself a book and make a few bob - but leave this tragedy alone.
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Old 30th Nov 2009, 20:01   #96 (permalink)
 
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There are independent professionals involved investigating this tragic accident. How about just letting them get on with it, without these ridiculous conspiracy theories.
Well said, Sir.
Having stopped a few times in the 'stans for gravy, it seems to me perfectly normal, and a way to maximise payload.
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Old 30th Nov 2009, 20:39   #97 (permalink)
 
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very few people, the ones with their many own special techniques in the cockpit, ague that an abort beyond V1 can be done by use of thrust reverse only until speed is below V1 again, then start to add brakes and hope that enough runway is available
You obviously have grasped the principles of Performance A - well done!
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Old 1st Dec 2009, 04:54   #98 (permalink)
 
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The MD11 strikes again, what a surprise
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Old 1st Dec 2009, 04:59   #99 (permalink)
 
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Crew Names

Does anyone have the crew names on this flight?? Thanks
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Old 1st Dec 2009, 07:20   #100 (permalink)
 
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Goose are you ok?
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