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Old 28th Nov 2009, 07:32   #21 (permalink)
 
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Seems that the aircrafts final resting place was too far away from the runway end to be a failed RTO. I believe it got airbourne.

My guess is it was not gaining enough height after take off for whatever reason at hit an obstacle.

It ended up here. Extended centreline 35R..... see below

[IMG][/IMG]
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 08:24   #22 (permalink)
 
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Where did you get that info from Biggles 72?
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 08:38   #23 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Where did you get that info from Biggles 72?
Looked out the window when we took off. Could be clearly seen.
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 09:15   #24 (permalink)
 
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Sounds as if aircraft came off end of runway at a very high speed

JACDEC - Current News


Ian B

Last edited by Ian Brooks; 28th Nov 2009 at 10:50.
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 10:23   #25 (permalink)
 
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Very sad. Had a British Flying Spanner on board, no more info ... Crash: Avient Aviation MD11 at Shanghai on Nov 28th 2009, overran runway on takeoff
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 10:49   #26 (permalink)
AAL
 
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Dear Brandtzag:

"Loss of power or as for african cargo ops - notoriously over loaded?"

I beg your pardon Bwana, not another overloaded African Ops. Headquarters based in England, aircraft based in Vatry and Liege, run by Europeans!!!

Suppose you wanted to say: "Loss of power or as for European Ops - notoriously over loaded!!"
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 11:15   #27 (permalink)
 
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The report on TVB Pearl, HK.. (OK not the most authoritative source...) says it was an MD 11 for AVIENT, that it had an American pilot, that it had 'crew from Indonesia' and that there are 3 dead, 4 in hospital. The plane according to the eye witnesses took a long time to get airborne and then crashed.
The crash caused some flight delays.
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 11:47   #28 (permalink)
 
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The delivery from Miami to Liege was postponed several times due to fuel pump problems. Maybe it caught the crew at the worst moment.
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 11:48   #29 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
I beg your pardon Bwana, not another overloaded African Ops. Headquarters based in England, aircraft based in Vatry and Liege, run by Europeans!!!
Just one minor detail: aircraft registered in Africa!

p.s. according to their website their head office is in Harare.
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 13:18   #30 (permalink)
 
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It might SAY that, but it's run from UK and has been as long as I've personally known them.
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 13:19   #31 (permalink)
 
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A Zimbabwian registered aircraft
A crash in China
A Cargo Aircraft
An Aircraft type that is out of production
An aircraft manufacturer that no longer exists

What sort of investigation can we expect? there are always lessons to be learnt from sad incidents like this I hope we do find out what happened so it can be prevented in future
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 13:47   #32 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
It might SAY that, but it's run from UK and has been as long as I've personally known them.
In that case, wouldn't you think it's a bit strange that a few of those dodgy African cargo operators (MK anyone?) are 'based' in the UK and thus gaining access to the EU market? How do they get away with it?
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 13:52   #33 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
What sort of investigation can we expect? there are always lessons to be learnt from sad incidents like this I hope we do find out what happened so it can be prevented in future
If it's mechancial related expect EASA, the NTSB, the FAA and Boeing to issue coments in less than 6 months.

If it's mostly crew or dispatch related and no new lessons learned, then don't expect to see anything other than internet chatter.

I suppose that there can be other issues, but for this specfic accident I can't think of any?
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 14:05   #34 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
In that case, wouldn't you think it's a bit strange that a few of those dodgy African cargo operators (MK anyone?) are 'based' in the UK and thus gaining access to the EU market? How do they get away with it?
MK were based in the UK and G registered the last time I looked!?

C o' G
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 14:14   #35 (permalink)
 
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Earlier issue with same aircraft?

Per ASN Network, note the pics

"The Zimbabwe-registered aircraft's tail struck the ground on takeoff..." - If that is true, then this would not be the first time this aircraft's tail touched the ground:

Planepictures.net search: Registration: HL7372
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 14:15   #36 (permalink)
 
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A quick search on Freight Dogs and you will find a lot written about this airline and its owner Mr. Andrew Smith.

This is a Zimbabwean airline with headquarters in Salisbury, Wiltshire, United Kingdom. It operated from Vatry France for years and then in Sept this year did a moonlight flight to Liege Belgium allegedly leaving behind massive debts, then almost out of nowhere a month later they get a MD11F and within a couple of weeks of operating the aircraft this happens......

Some links previously posted:


UN Criticizes UK for Failing to Clamp Down on Mercenaries - Financial Times
"Avient provided military assistance to the unelected Congolese government's air force in 1999 and 2000 during the war against rebel forces. "

How a Perfect English Gent in a Rural Idyll Profits From a Bloody African War - Observer
"But an Observer investigation has uncovered evidence that behind the doors of a luxury house on the edge of the village, Andrew Smith runs a business empire which has made a fortune from a bloody African civil war that has claimed millions of lives. "

How British Army Man Organised Bombing Raids, Mercenary Operations - The East African
"The Observer newspaper also alleges that Smith ran a mercenary operation in the DRC and had documents showing that the former army captain had traded with the notorious Ukrainian arms dealer Leonid Minin (see The EastAfrican, November 18-24)."

UN cuts details of Western profiteers from Congo report, The Independent
"Avient is run by a former British Army captain, Andrew Smith. In the last panel report, the company was said to have been contracted to stage bombing raids over eastern Congo in 1999 and 2000. It also allegedly sold six attack helicopters to the Kinshasa government last year. "

Final Report of the Panel of Experts on the Illegal Exploitation of Natural Resources and Other Forms of Wealth of the Democratic Republic of the Congo - UN Security Council - S/2002/1146
"In April 2002, Avient Air brokered the sale of six attack helicopters to the Kinshasa Government. Bank records show several transactions between Avient and accused trafficker Leonid Minim. Under the management of Andrew Smith, a former British army captain, Gerry O'Brien and Lewis Kling, Avient was contracted to organize bombing raids into eastern D.R. Congo in 1999 and 2000."

A Catalogue of Failures: G8 Arms Exports and Human Rights Violations - Amnesty International
"Another example is the Zimbabwean company, Avient, with management links to the UK, which was reported to have hired Russian aircraft and air crew to support the government of Laurent Kabila in the Congo with "air drops", and also admitted to repairing and maintaining Russian MIG fighters for the Kabila regime."

Regulating weapons deals: The case for European Controls on arms brokers - Oxfam
(pdf file, right-click & save)
"British citizen, Andrew Smith, resident in Wiltshire, was named by a UN report for organising bombing raids in DRC on behalf of President Joseph Kabila. He is also alleged to have brokered the sale of six attack helicopters to DRC government last April. He side-stepped EU arms embargos by operating through his company, Avient, registered in Zimbabwe."
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 14:19   #37 (permalink)
 
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A/c may be "Z" reg but company is based in UK, crews are trained here at the sims in Crawley to UK standards and class 1 medicals done in UK also!!
The crews are worldwide including many form Stateside and Europe!!
This is not a case of just africans loading up and going!

Sky news reports that a/c struck the runway with its tail on rotation.
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 14:25   #38 (permalink)
 
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3 Americans killed in Shanghai plane crash - CNN.com

CNN reporting 3 the crew dead are Americans. The remaining crew, 4 are in hospital.

Man, what's up with all these MD-11 crashes? She's a beautiful airplane, but ever since she entered cargo service, seems to be a lot of crashes.
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 14:48   #39 (permalink)
 
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Sad to see another one go down. If you check other posts on the MD-11, one recurring theme: it must be flown precisely. I retired off it with 5000 hrs. and it's the only thing I've flown that I was still not entirely comfortable with.
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 16:19   #40 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
In that case, wouldn't you think it's a bit strange that a few of those dodgy African cargo operators (MK anyone?) are 'based' in the UK and thus gaining access to the EU market? How do they get away with it?
Oh please don't think that I do not agree with your question. It mystifies me too, even when I was with them.
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