The biggest issue is that some american carriers have NON-TYPERATED co-pilots!!!!! [from airbubba]
Some of this is nomenclature. Until fairly recently, the U.S. did not have a P2 type rating (in Oz this used to be called a copilot type rating as I recall). A couple of years ago the FAA started giving P2 type ratings to FO's who had been through an approved course, usually the normal airline FO training.
Any U.S. type rating in the old days (more than a couple of years ago) was a P1 or command type rating. Only the captain on the unaugmented crew was required to have the type rating, which in airline operations would be an ATR, later ATP type rating as opposed to a commerical or Part 91 type rating.
The first officer was required to have a commercial pilot license with catergory and class endorsements but was not required to be type rated in the specific aircraft. Most airlines only typed the captain but a few, like Pan Am, went beyond and typed all pilots.
With an augmented crew at least one pilot on the flight deck had to have a type rating so for international ops, many or all of the FO's had the type rating whereas on domestic ops they usually did not.
I remember riding United ORD-NRT a decade or so ago on a B-744 with a captain and three FO's. Apparently the flight was under 12 hours and only required two FO's but a third was put on for contractual reasons 'to plot in Russian airspace'. Or so they told me.
Anyway, for international ops the U.S. now requires at least a copilot type rating for all FO's. I don't fly much domestic so I'm not sure if domestic FO's now need the P2 type rating, I don't think they do.
Fox your right, i just went thru all kinds of test at 57 and came out clean as a whistle with high BP and bad cholesterol and a bit fat at 57...go figure
OK, thanks for the clarification. Here in OZ Captains and First officers all have command ratings on an ATPL, Second officers [or junior F/Os] for augmented crews have co-pilot ratings on a CPL or ATPL. Basically the same, all have done "type rating" course but sims a little different.
It seems that it can become embedded in the artery walls, yet leave them appearing open on the angiogram. Inflammation starts because of the very cells that should be protecting us, and the bursting out of these warring entities is sudden and often catastrophic.
OK, thanks for the clarification. Here in OZ Captains and First officers all have command ratings on an ATPL, Second officers [or junior F/Os] for augmented crews have co-pilot ratings on a CPL or ATPL.
Yep, different system, we don't have second officers, except for flight engineers. And we don't do base checks and instrument checks as such. Our training records contain all of the currency information that is listed on licenses in many other countries (i.e. base check with one date for the check, one for the signature, another for the license, whew!).
And we've gone to this warm and fuzzy AQP training system where the oral exam is often gone and the checkride is hidden in scenarios that are meant to be practical and instructive. However, since there is still the legally mandated laundry list of required items, this usually morphs into a combination of quick demos and pencil whips with little opportunity for training or proficiency. And, on many fleets, we only go once a year.
Federal Aviation Regulations
91.3 (b) In an in-flight emergency requiring immediate action, the pilot in command may deviate from any rule of this part to the extent required to meet that emergency.
121.557 (a) In an emergency situation that requires immediate decision and action, the pilot in command may take any action that he considers necessary under the circumstances. In such a case he may deviate from prescribed operations procedures and methods, weather minimums, and this chapter, to the extent required in the interests of safety.
I want to know who is this idiot the BBC dragged up?... one "Jim Ferguson - an aviation writer from the UK" who, during studio interview, came out with comments such as:
"the plane would have been difficult to land with only one pilot at the controls"
"You could, I gather, land a 777 single-handed - but it would require a lot of effort and it would appear [in this case there was] a very young co-pilot - so if there was another one, that would help. "
"It would be very difficult, very distressing. I don't know if this [scenario] is carried out on simulator training or not."
"it must have been "very difficult, very distressing" to land the plane safely."
Jim Ferguson, if you're reading this (and you really should be! ), I'd invite you to keep your half-baked ideas about flying a jet airliner out of the public domain. And, fwiw, I've just sent an email to the BBC asking them to desist from using you as an aviation pundit, as you quite clearly do not know what you are talking about!
On flights of less than eight hours there would only be two pilots. In a real world airline, you would usually have a pilot or two deadheading internationally.
Still, the widebody single pilot scenario has happened occasionally from what I understand. I've been told of an incident at a cargo airline where the FO became miffed over the captain's instructions and refused to even operate the flaps and gear into NRT. And, a lot of Asian and Middle Eastern airlines fly with very low time ab initio FO's. No problem for the captain, he's used to doing it solo but the question of whether the FO could really land alone has been raised here often in the past.
In the U.S. we're supposed to wear a mask if only one of the pilots is left on the flight deck at altitude in case of rapid decompression. However, working overseas, the lone pilot was also supposed to lock his shoulder harness in case he passed out to avoid the slump over the controls depicted in the movie 'Airplane!'
What I find really distressing is the uniformed comment on the news. Sky, which I was watching, would have it that there was a major crisis happening. The innunendo was almost "here we go again" - another AF 447. Instead of emphasising that the crew was trained for such an eventuality, one would have thought that unless the additional f/o was luckily on board, there would have been a disaster. Talk about terrifying the travelling public!
Good old Jim - owning a nice anorak and a powerful pair of binoculars does not make you an aviation expert. Don't think he has ever held a license, certainly not a CPL.
Are the F/O's qualified LHS to be pilot flying in less than Cat 1 conditions? If not, thats a good reason for declaring an emergency..
Another is, how does anyone know what has caused the death.. could be subtle chemical/ biological sources that could affect other crew members.. priority for landing required.
Believe it or not, you'll be an 'Old Fart' one day Blackbird. I hope you're accorded the due respect you'll feel you should be. BTW, as I write I'm a relative 'nipper' being nowhere near 65!
I wonder what would have happened if the accountants and Boffins had their way..and only had 1 pilot onboard
I can't speak for the accountants, but I'm pretty sure most "boffins" (presuming you mean engineers of the software persuasion) would agree with me that 2 crew is the bare minimum on a modern transport jet!
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