1983ish, APS shut to new staff, the best pension plan. NAPS for new staff.
2003ish, NAPS shut to new staff, a good Pension plan. BARP for new staff.
BARP is the poor relation.
2007, APS and NAPS watered down to save money, BARP got a slight improvement I think may be, at this time Flying staff got a 17.55/19%increase to pay for pen purposes because their unions done a great job, think BALPA made the play and the CC unions took the same offer.
So now various staff on various pension deals, all pulling in different directions for their own ends, this will cause more and more trouble as time passes by, will only be sorted when APS and NAPS shut and all staff placed into BARP, however when this occours, BARP staff will want all new members of BARP to be given a lesser deal, may be BARP2, because this is how BARP staff have been treated till now ???
remember the regions?we had no option just got rid of without a mention even senior management in lhr phoned to ask could we spare any staff to help in t5 6 months after we were exterminated/just think!!
Forecast: Nature will take its course and BA will be sold within 36 months. There shall be much lobbying and weeping in dark places. The government will allow market forces to prevail. Actuaries will look at the pension fund figures and the fund commitments and convert to money purchase for existing and future retirees. This shall be a pattern across many businesses. Public sector workers shall be next. There will be much gnashing of teeth and the enlightened shall not read architecture , instead accountancy.
The sins of the forefathers shall be visited on the children. Always did and always will. Here endeth the .....ramblings...or are they ?
Koi
Sold to whom? Nobody has any cash. BA are not as badly off as some airlines, except of course, there isn't a lifeline in the form of a government bailout or Chapter 11. Just cold, hard economic reality. Makes you proud to be British.
So talks tonight have broken down between various workforce sectors and BA management, I am not surprised, most of these people are on lowish salaries and so cannot make much of a sacrifice. The whole company has to ditch its past baggage, mostly its pension liabilities, and then move on. It has to happen throughout the UK, where currently 85% of the UKs GDP is needed to finance civil servants pension liabilitiies, so why should BA be any different. We need chapter 11 or the UK equivalent here in the UK.
Surely it is more important to have a job now and worry about the future later.
The whole company has to ditch its past baggage, mostly its pension liabilities, and then move on.
The only way that BA can do that is to go into Administration. Would the CAA have the balls to then withdraw the airlines Operating Licence if that happened?
If that happened BA would lose their rights to landing slots at Heathrow and Gatwick (and any other UK airport that have slot limitations). When you consider that slots at LHR are valued at up to 30 million apiece, and BA include these slot values in their company valuation, the company becomes worth an awful lot less than the current value of about 1.6 billion.
Rumours kicking around the financial markets are that the pensions black hole is around 2.9 billion, can anyone confirm that?
Just as the East Coast Rail network has been re-nationalized is it not a possibility that BA could follow the same course?
The rail network is run by franchised operators, who run the service on behalf of the government. Its not really re-nationalisation as they arent really private anyway. Its purely a contract between a PLC and the government which National Express have pulled out of. The government wouldnt be permitted to intervene with BA under european law.
Some APS pensioners are on six figure pensions. Those under the old old contract witha retirement age of 50 could 'crystalise' their pensions at 50. In effect they paid no more contributions but the pension value continued to increase to retirement at 55. It virtually doubled the employees pension. QUite how I do not know but that is a fact and good luck to those lucky enough to retire before the thieving Brown hammered the final nails into the UK private pension schemes.
Also when people glibly talk of BA closing NAPS it is financially impossible for them to do so. If they did the funding requirements are calculated on a 'discontinuance' basis and the last numbers I heard were that the cost would be around £6bn, and that was a year or two ago. The current deficit is around £3bn. There are ways of reducing the liabilities (deficit) and those negotiations between BA, employees, trustees and the regulator will occupy much of next year.
M Mouse ..so many misunderstandings. Yes , indeed. Pension contracts will not continue to be honored if the fund simply cannot afford to pay. Pressure to apply new legislation will be intense. You will find much talking in dark rooms about how to proceed to achieve this end. This is just nature taking its course within a filthy market place. Quite simply a ' new game' about to start. Lets see how the public sector workers fare when they try and shout down the inevitable end to their defined benefit schemes. Go to any gym on a monday morning and you will find 49 yr old retired police inspectors on the treadmills enjoying a rather good deal fter 30 years service or perhaps..early retirement for sickies. All just playing the game. Trouble is it all has to stop. Yes, the law will move to allow change.
Koi ...ex Ara house
you will find 49 yr old retired police inspectors on the treadmills enjoying a rather good deal fter 30 years service or perhaps..early retirement for sickies. All just playing the game.
Hardly the same as honest people who continued to retirement age.
Basil...I do believe the boys in blue pay a considerable amount towards their pension in order to retire earlier than most, rather than still be scraping around the ground with wrongdoers when they are 65. I don't begrudge them that, but that's just my own humble opinion.
As an ex boy in blue, we contributed a minimum of 11% of each monthly salary. It was being discussed that a new pension would be introduced with reduced payments for new recruits. Not sure if it happened, but if it did your next generation 49yr old ex inspector will be found in working in tesco rather than working out in the gym.
Now to BA's problem.
It was a fraud. Whilst asking full time staff to work for free, the company re-employed ex managers as consultants. Ex-managers who only left last christmas with a decent package. And now return on upto a quoted £1000 a day. Rational arguments such as the lack of pension contributions and NI being paid by BA are rather insignificant when, the company tells you matters are so bad volunteers are needed to work for free.
Ted,
I've two in the extended family and understood (not from them) that a number of police officers arrange early retirement on compensation.
If I misjudge our polis then, of course, I apologise and withdraw.
Yes, as you say, I wouldn't want to be tackling a 20yo nuisance at age 65.
Leave at 48 wih 30yrs service and you get a pension pot of lets say, 500k.
Options.
1/ Leave on a pension of 26k PA.
2/ Take up to of 25% pot in cash, eg, 125K cash tax free and a pension of 18K PA, or anyway you like between zero and 25%.
And remember, all gold plated and keeps up with inflation thanks to joe public who fund it, Gordon has different views on public and private pensions, he milked the private and spent it.
So if you meet a very happy 48yr old x policeman, you know why.
However on balance they did/still do a great job, must be getting harder in this PC world we live in, keep up the good work chaps.....
It's Commutation i.e. you surrender pension to 'commute back' to a greater lump sum than that offered as standard. These days index linking is 'capped' and may not keep up with inflation.
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