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Old 1st Jun 2009, 09:40   #1 (permalink)
 
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Air France A330-200 missing

Reuters headline:

AIR FRANCE JET WITH 215 ABOARD DROPS OFF RADAR, AFP REPORTS

Any one heard anything?
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Old 1st Jun 2009, 09:54   #2 (permalink)
 
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PARIS, June 1, 2009 (AFP) - - An Air France passenger jet with 215 people on board is missing after dropping off radar over the Atlantic off the Brazilian coast Monday, a Paris airport official said.
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Old 1st Jun 2009, 09:57   #3 (permalink)
 
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BBC NEWS | Americas | French plane 'missing off Brazil'
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Old 1st Jun 2009, 09:59   #4 (permalink)
 
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Aircraft don't just 'drop off the radar', even what little radar there is off the coast of Brazil. What is more of a concern is that it appears the aircraft is now overdue with what appears to be no contact with any other ATC agency along it's route.
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Old 1st Jun 2009, 10:01   #5 (permalink)

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Sad news. No need for all and sundry to start with mawkish condolences, etc. It's a given. All professional pilots share concern on such events.

How was the met down that way at the time?
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Old 1st Jun 2009, 10:04   #6 (permalink)
 
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From CDG Arrivals page:

Numéro de vol : AF447
Arrivée attendue à 12:10 * Départ : RIO INTERNATIONA le 31/05/2009 19:00

Arrivée : PARIS le 01/06/2009 11:15
CHARLES DE GAULLE TERMINAL 2 E
Escales : Pas d'escale
Type d'avion : AIRBUS A330-200
Compagnie aérienne : AIR FRANCE
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Old 1st Jun 2009, 10:05   #7 (permalink)
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There isnt any useful radar in the Atlantico FIR, or Dakar for that matter. ATC is very unreliable, but for it to be missing this long is not giood,
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Old 1st Jun 2009, 10:05   #8 (permalink)
 
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AFP is now reporting:
"Airbus A 330 with 215 passengers disappeared from radar at 0600 gmt off Brazil. It was due to arrive in CDG from Rio at 11h10. An emergency unit has been set up at the airport. "The worry is very great at Roissy (CDG). The plane disappeared from control screens several hours ago. It would be a transponder failure but this sort of failure is very rare and the plane did not land at 11h10 as scheduled," an airport source told AFP. Air France is not responding to queries. "
------
Unfortunately it would have to be more than a transponder failure...
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Old 1st Jun 2009, 10:11   #9 (permalink)
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What radar coverage is there over that part of the Atlantic and would it show fragmentation?

Also would US military satellites have monitored this area?

Does anyone have the weather for the area, was there forecast severe turbulence?
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Old 1st Jun 2009, 10:11   #10 (permalink)
 
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What route would it take? I assume the majority of the first part of the flight is over the Atlantic and then over Africa/Portugal/Spain for the final part? How far would it have been into the journey when contact was lost?
i.e. is contact more likely to have been lost over sea or land?
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Old 1st Jun 2009, 10:16   #11 (permalink)
 
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In response to Mark , if all timings are correct then the A330 lost contact about 3 hours before landing at Paris. The natural route is over water nearly all the way. I would suggest a point some approx 1400 miles from Paris out into the Atlantic to the South-West would be the vaugeist of approximations.
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Old 1st Jun 2009, 10:20   #12 (permalink)
 
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ACARS Details

ACARS mode: 2 Aircraft reg: F-GZCP [Airbus A332]
Message label: _ Block id: 0 Msg no: S72A
Flight id: AF0447 [GIG-CDG] [Air France]
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Old 1st Jun 2009, 10:21   #13 (permalink)
 
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Going on those vaguest approximations .. if it was around 0600GMT that was 3hrs before landing which would likely put it somewhere a little N of the Canary Islands off the Moroccan Coast .. If they meant 0600 Paris Time then it would likely be somewhere further south - probalby around the Cape Verde Islands ... either way though along way from Brazil / Brazilian airspace.

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Old 1st Jun 2009, 10:21   #14 (permalink)

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Mid Atlantic weather at Dakar latitude and south from there not good at FL300 and above at the time period. Standard for this time of year. (WX is only one possible factor, but must be considered)
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Old 1st Jun 2009, 10:25   #15 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
In response to Mark , if all timings are correct then the A330 lost contact about 3 hours before landing at Paris. The natural route is over water nearly all the way. I would suggest a point some approx 1400 miles from Paris out into the Atlantic to the South-West would be the vaugeist of approximations.
That's going to make a SAR operation difficult. Wonder where aircraft/boats etc are going to be provided from? Strange choice of terminology with "dropped off radar" - maybe implies a sudden chance of circumstance rather than a problem where there was constant radar changes and discussions with the flight deck.
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Old 1st Jun 2009, 10:25   #16 (permalink)
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Could it have strayed into a CB? Yes weather not good at that latitude at the moment.

Aircraft an A330-200

When other aircraft have disappeared in similar circumstances, Pan Am, Air India, there was a sudden and total electrical failure. Seems like a similar scenario.
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Old 1st Jun 2009, 10:25   #17 (permalink)
 
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Brazilian Air Force Search in Progress.

Brazilian press has reported that Brazilian Air Force has started search and rescue efforts and that aircraft has not been detected by Sal Island (Cape Verde) radars as expected.
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Old 1st Jun 2009, 10:32   #18 (permalink)
 
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off radar

off the coast of Brazil in the south Atlantic there is no Radar cover only positions reports are done via HF or VHF.
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Old 1st Jun 2009, 10:38   #19 (permalink)
 
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Yes, but dropping off ACARS updates etc is as good as dropping of the "radar" screen these days, where the screen shows more than just a radar return.

Any speculation is pretty pointless at this stage...
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Old 1st Jun 2009, 10:38   #20 (permalink)
 
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Island is Fernando de Noronha,200 nm North East of Barzil.Still speculating
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