Continental TurboProp crash inbound for Buffalo
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@Vapilot2004
There was another incident in 95' Dash 8, but the Q400 entered service in 2000
Ansett New Zealand Flight 703 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
There was another incident in 95' Dash 8, but the Q400 entered service in 2000
Ansett New Zealand Flight 703 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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I will not guess upon the reason for the accident.
Let NTSB inform us of what has happened!
It is always sad when they happen
But here is a link to a serious incident of same type of A/C on approach in Sweden.
Even though there might be no connection between this accident and the incident in Sweden, it might be very good idea to read this report if you operate a turboprop.
http://www.havkom.se/virtupload/news/rl2007_12e.pdf
Walder
Let NTSB inform us of what has happened!
It is always sad when they happen
But here is a link to a serious incident of same type of A/C on approach in Sweden.
Even though there might be no connection between this accident and the incident in Sweden, it might be very good idea to read this report if you operate a turboprop.
http://www.havkom.se/virtupload/news/rl2007_12e.pdf
Walder
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ground ear witness
ear witness reported sound from engines like that of a chain saw
could it have been a prop overspeed/runaway?
there was a report that the crew reported mx difficulties
with a modern set of recorders, I think we will know what happened within 48 hours.
could it have been a prop overspeed/runaway?
there was a report that the crew reported mx difficulties
with a modern set of recorders, I think we will know what happened within 48 hours.
While ice (IMHO) is a prime suspect given the conditions -- like TheHornet says, it could be a chainsaw loose in the prop or a number of other things. Plenty of possibilities for the moment...
I don't normally enter into the condolence thing - but something about this one just pulls at my spirit. Sorry, sorry sorry...for the crew, the pax, the person on the ground, their families, the Colgan extended family, the controller that worked right through it....
I don't normally enter into the condolence thing - but something about this one just pulls at my spirit. Sorry, sorry sorry...for the crew, the pax, the person on the ground, their families, the Colgan extended family, the controller that worked right through it....
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Hey if anyone from CNN is reading this - the "tape" is legit and comes from Listen to Live Air Traffic Control Communications | LiveATC.net, an enthusiast website that streams ATC communication frequencies picked up from scanners over the Internet. Anderson Cooper and a pilot commentator on there keep saying that it's unlikely that there's a tape etc... not true, this website has been around for a long time.
http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kb...2009-0300Z.mp3
Initial contact with approach control ocurrs around 3:52, the crash occurs somewhere around 16 minutes or so after the aircraft is handed off to the tower.
http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kb...2009-0300Z.mp3
Initial contact with approach control ocurrs around 3:52, the crash occurs somewhere around 16 minutes or so after the aircraft is handed off to the tower.
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Large twin turbo prop
It would be interesting to see if there are any flight characteristics similar in the last few minutes of flight to that of the Indiana ATR 72 crash. See below:-
"A friend of mine at deHavilland Canada tells me that the ATR's
aileron aerodynamic balance surfaces, which are not shielded (unlike the
DHC-8), do not have anti- or de-ice protection. The fatal crash in Italy
in 1987(?) of an ATR was blamed on icing of the balance surfaces, leading
to a loss of control. Story is that the same airline came very close to
losing a second ATR the same night from the same cause! The Seattle Times
is reporting that a ATR was nearly lost over Wisconsin in 1988 due to
aileron balance surface icing and that the FAA put out an AD requiring
vortex generators to be added to fix the icing problem. There was also
mention that having the autopilot flying the aircaft in icing conditions
compounds the problem. It seems that a human flying the plane will
notice the onset of icing effects on the ailerons, but the autopilot
compensates and the first that the pilot knows of the problem is when the
aircraft suddenly rolls".
"A friend of mine at deHavilland Canada tells me that the ATR's
aileron aerodynamic balance surfaces, which are not shielded (unlike the
DHC-8), do not have anti- or de-ice protection. The fatal crash in Italy
in 1987(?) of an ATR was blamed on icing of the balance surfaces, leading
to a loss of control. Story is that the same airline came very close to
losing a second ATR the same night from the same cause! The Seattle Times
is reporting that a ATR was nearly lost over Wisconsin in 1988 due to
aileron balance surface icing and that the FAA put out an AD requiring
vortex generators to be added to fix the icing problem. There was also
mention that having the autopilot flying the aircaft in icing conditions
compounds the problem. It seems that a human flying the plane will
notice the onset of icing effects on the ailerons, but the autopilot
compensates and the first that the pilot knows of the problem is when the
aircraft suddenly rolls".
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xolodenko, Thursday 12th around 22:20 local time
This will be the 4th fatal accident for the DHC8, and here they are:
For the DHC-8-400 (Q400) there has been a number of accidents/incidents without fatalities, and the majority of them are connected to undercarriage failure.
This will be the 4th fatal accident for the DHC8, and here they are:
- 21 NOV 1990 - DHC-8-100 - Bangkok Airways - HS-SKI - on approach to Koh Samui Airport (USM) - 33 of 38 on board died
- 06 JAN 1993 - DHC-8-300 - Lufthansa Cityline - D-BEAT - landing at Paris-Charles de Gaulle Airport (CDG) - 4 of 23 on board died
- 09 JUN 1995 - DHC-8-100 - Ansett New Zealand - ZK-NEY - on approach to Palmerston North Airport (PMR) - 4 of 21 on board died
- 12 FEB 2009 - DHC-8-400 - Colgan Air - N200WQ - on approach to Buffalo Niagara International Airport (BUF) - 48 of 48 on board died + one on the ground
For the DHC-8-400 (Q400) there has been a number of accidents/incidents without fatalities, and the majority of them are connected to undercarriage failure.
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Any Dash drivers care to describe a normal configuration change at the marker in IMC? Do you put the props in high pitch, drop the gear and add flaps?
From the audio links, and location of the crash site, looks like something bad happened right at glide slope intercept at 2300 feet.
Does the Dash have a history of split flaps?
From the audio links, and location of the crash site, looks like something bad happened right at glide slope intercept at 2300 feet.
Does the Dash have a history of split flaps?
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My two cents worth..........maybe refrozen residues of thinkened de-/anti-icing fluid and therefore blocked horizontal stabi or blocked aileron?
Air Accidents Investigation Branch: DHC-8-311, G-BRYU
I know there are special maintenance procedures (washing with hot water or unthickended de-icing fluid) to reduce the residues because the problem is well known.
Air Accidents Investigation Branch: DHC-8-311, G-BRYU
I know there are special maintenance procedures (washing with hot water or unthickended de-icing fluid) to reduce the residues because the problem is well known.
AlwaysOnFire
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vapilot2004, yes, with the Q400, three other fatal crashes with the Dash-8 all in all (this is the most deadly of those four). 27 accidents listed on http://www.aviation-safety.net
Gender Faculty Specialist
Airbubba, I've not flown the Q400 for a while but...Some models have a reduced Np setting which allows approaches and landings with props at 850rpm (Cruise setting). Without Reduced Np I can't really remember when the props go to max (Probably dependant on company SOP's) but there is no in flight limit as to when you can use them (IIRC), handy for losing height as it's quite a slippery machine. Gear down and flaps are usually 15 before the glide and depending on landing setting stay there or go to 35.
The ice protection is pretty good. Each wing has boots but they are separated into four sections along each wing and cycle from out to in with the inboard ones cycling alternately. Also engine intake boots cycle alternately.
The ice protection is pretty good. Each wing has boots but they are separated into four sections along each wing and cycle from out to in with the inboard ones cycling alternately. Also engine intake boots cycle alternately.
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Found this on USA Today - an interesting comment ref: SAS...
'New era' as Continental begins Q400 flights at Newark - Today In the Sky - USATODAY.com
'New era' as Continental begins Q400 flights at Newark - Today In the Sky - USATODAY.com
A friend of mine at deHavilland Canada tells me that the ATR's
aileron aerodynamic balance surfaces, which are not shielded (unlike the
DHC-8), do not have anti- or de-ice protection.
aileron aerodynamic balance surfaces, which are not shielded (unlike the
DHC-8), do not have anti- or de-ice protection.
The fatal crash in Italy in 1987(?) of an ATR was blamed on icing of the balance surfaces, leading to a loss of control
Q400 is not ATR.
Any speculation about causes of the Buffalo accident are practically worthless until the NTSB has its preliminary say.
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Sawing sound reported...
...could it be the PTU in the hyd. system? Not sure of the exactly architecture on the Q400 but know it has a PTU. ButI suppose unlikely to be heard above the engines....Just my tuppence worth.
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From the ATC recording, sounds like ice accretion reported by several aircraft both north and south of the airport, from maybe 5000 to 2300, around the time 3407 went down.
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I find it surprising that ATC told the next Dash 8 that a company Dash had 'gone down' short of the runway and 'didn't make it'. I think I'd find that an enormous distraction and would certainly rather find out once on the ground after shut down. Anyway, how come the ATC tape is available, isn't it protected by law like it is in the UK?
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On the atc
http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kb...2009-0300Z.mp3
At the mark 15:17 there was a readback from the crew and maybe it is me but the voice sounded nervious, please sombody else hear that and say what is your opinion.
http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kb...2009-0300Z.mp3
At the mark 15:17 there was a readback from the crew and maybe it is me but the voice sounded nervious, please sombody else hear that and say what is your opinion.