L@ser attacks on Aircraft
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More l@zers around LHR
Hi all,
I thought it would be of interest to some to share another l@zer issue around Heathrow.
Casually listening to my scanner 118.70 - 09L, 19:10, 02/11/08. Green l@ser beam being fired up to jets on approach. Tower asking aircraft for location so police can home in.
...should anybody be interested, of if tower might see this and supply more info to those interested.
Regards
I thought it would be of interest to some to share another l@zer issue around Heathrow.
Casually listening to my scanner 118.70 - 09L, 19:10, 02/11/08. Green l@ser beam being fired up to jets on approach. Tower asking aircraft for location so police can home in.
...should anybody be interested, of if tower might see this and supply more info to those interested.
Regards
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I brought a 767 in from KIAD in the 13th October to LHR about 2100. came out of the hold at OCK and vectored downwind LH for 27L. Then taken north over airport at 5000 to position downwind RH for 27R. Took a green laser light as I started my turn downwind to East from a North heading. Told Director who seemed utterly uninterested. I expected the Fuzz or someone to ask me a few questions when I got to the gate - no one at all.
Guess they are not a big deal after all!
Guess they are not a big deal after all!
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where is Tom Symonds . . . . . . ?
BBC News might care to follow-up on the story of another aircraft inbound to EGPH being endangered by a laser beam shone at it . . . . . .
. . . . . . by reporting to the whole nation that the self-same lasers are being openly advertised for sale on the best known Professional Pilots' web-site in the world !
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World's Most Powerful
Handheld Green Lasers! Beam Visible For Miles, Burn Through Plastic
Handheld Green Lasers! Beam Visible For Miles, Burn Through Plastic
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a l@zer ad by any other name . . . . .
A moderator or webmaster needs to change the filters on Google ads for this site
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Despite the rather sniping nature of the above posts, don't for a minute think this hasn't gone unnoticed amongst the moderators. As one who was targeted and temporarily blinded in one eye by a high-powered green laser recently, leading to two trips to the local eye clinic, I for one am particularly uncomfortable with this situation. There is a debate running in the moderators Admin forum on this issue, and has been for some time.
However, the selective banning of ads that fall outwith a definite category seems to be slightly more complicated than it would appear. Must admit, that slightly amazes me, a relative computer illiterate, considering we can put a man on the moon etc. etc. However, it seems to be the case.
Perhaps one of the sites new owners would care to comment with more authority. Meanwhile, those of us moderators who actually work in the industry share the concerns about the anachronistic nature of such adverts appearing on this, and similar threads.
Squid
However, the selective banning of ads that fall outwith a definite category seems to be slightly more complicated than it would appear. Must admit, that slightly amazes me, a relative computer illiterate, considering we can put a man on the moon etc. etc. However, it seems to be the case.
Perhaps one of the sites new owners would care to comment with more authority. Meanwhile, those of us moderators who actually work in the industry share the concerns about the anachronistic nature of such adverts appearing on this, and similar threads.
Squid
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Hummm..
I doubt somehow that the average chav "playing" with these "toys" is even aware of the existence of PPRuNe.
So, having all these ads pop up, whenever the topic subject matter contains the word "l@ser", may well be a good thing for US, because it alerts us to how much of this sh!t is now readily available and widely advertised.
"Ads by Google" does not just 'supply' PPRuNe with ads, you know!!
I doubt somehow that the average chav "playing" with these "toys" is even aware of the existence of PPRuNe.
So, having all these ads pop up, whenever the topic subject matter contains the word "l@ser", may well be a good thing for US, because it alerts us to how much of this sh!t is now readily available and widely advertised.
"Ads by Google" does not just 'supply' PPRuNe with ads, you know!!
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Ads
Come on... lasing chavs don't (couldn't?) read this text-based site.
Banning ads here won't impact availability of these devices around the world.
Dealing with offenders requires law enforcement not ad bans.
MOST IMPORTANTLY PROPER SENTENCES.
Thankfully, I think the physics means crews are generally safe from permanent injury (unless the scum who shine lasers at them cause a crash.)
As a handheld and professional, FAA-regulated retina-frying laser-using astronomer, and frequent SLF, I want the authorities to fix this.
Banning ads here won't impact availability of these devices around the world.
Dealing with offenders requires law enforcement not ad bans.
MOST IMPORTANTLY PROPER SENTENCES.
Thankfully, I think the physics means crews are generally safe from permanent injury (unless the scum who shine lasers at them cause a crash.)
As a handheld and professional, FAA-regulated retina-frying laser-using astronomer, and frequent SLF, I want the authorities to fix this.
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principles . . . . . . . . .
Come on... lasing chavs don't (couldn't?) read this text-based site. Banning ads here won't impact availability of these devices around the world
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I'm not a pilot (though half the family is) but I do have a lot of experience with big research lasers (PhD in Physics, hence DrKev, big class 4 lasers, have given training courses etc.). It has been 8 years since I've worked in physics but here's what I believe to be the current state of things...
In the UK and US, sale of any of class 3B or class 4 lasers (anything greater than 5mW power) is illegal to the public. If you do know of anyone selling lasers of Class 3B or Class 4 report them to the appropriate authority (department of trade and industry in the UK). If laws are in place in other countries they will be similar. Online sales might also be covered by this but the greatest issue there is one of enforcement. However, there are no laws relating to the USE of the lasers themselves by anyone. I think that needs be changed in a hurry.
It seems that any arrests made over targeting of aircraft were to do with endangering the aircraft and not to do with use of the lasers as such. A few countries are considering classing lasers as weapons, which would mean that all use without a license is forbidden, but I don't know if anybody has gotten around to that yet.
The potential dangers of even 3B lasers are just too great. Even at the lower limit of class 3B, most lasers are many times brighter than the sun (in terms of the amount of energy per unit area). If you were to look directly into a class 3B laser beam, the blink response of the eye cannot act fast enough to prevent (at least temporary) retinal damage.
What sort of exposure pilots would receive in these incidents is likely to be much lower - exposure does of course depend on the beam diameter (they do spread out a bit over distance), not just a simple dependence on output power. That said, to somebody working in a dark-adapted environment, even a wide-beam (5m or 10m, say) low-power laser will almost certainly ruin dark-adaptation and temporarily impair vision. Much the same as what drivers get with oncoming traffic and full headlamps but possibly worse, certainly more distracting, and of course in a much more critical situation.
"Ladies and Gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. Excuse the short delay, we have to hang around up here for 5 or 10 minutes until we can read the instruments clearly again and our night vision has returned. Hope you're enjoying the flight..."
I once got a "shot" from a 150mW laser, smack bang in the centre of vision. Freak accident - microscope slide falling over into the beam, very freakily passed through the beam at exactly the right angle to hit my eye. It was only the weak reflection that got me. The perfectly circular spot in the centre of my vision took two days to vanish (with no permanent damage, thank God) but it DID scare the ever loving crap out of me. Literally.
It went kind of like this....
...... 
...... 
...... 
For the record, a class 4 laser is bright enough that even looking at the spot on a wall can damage your vision. Class 4 will also burn skin faster than a lit match, sort of smells like sausages when you do, AND HURTS LIKE
!!!!
A) The sale of these items needs to be restricted including auction sites, with the capability they have,something similar to firearms laws.
B) Regarding the treatment of the people who choose to aim these at airliners
B) Regarding the treatment of the people who choose to aim these at airliners
It seems that any arrests made over targeting of aircraft were to do with endangering the aircraft and not to do with use of the lasers as such. A few countries are considering classing lasers as weapons, which would mean that all use without a license is forbidden, but I don't know if anybody has gotten around to that yet.
The potential dangers of even 3B lasers are just too great. Even at the lower limit of class 3B, most lasers are many times brighter than the sun (in terms of the amount of energy per unit area). If you were to look directly into a class 3B laser beam, the blink response of the eye cannot act fast enough to prevent (at least temporary) retinal damage.
What sort of exposure pilots would receive in these incidents is likely to be much lower - exposure does of course depend on the beam diameter (they do spread out a bit over distance), not just a simple dependence on output power. That said, to somebody working in a dark-adapted environment, even a wide-beam (5m or 10m, say) low-power laser will almost certainly ruin dark-adaptation and temporarily impair vision. Much the same as what drivers get with oncoming traffic and full headlamps but possibly worse, certainly more distracting, and of course in a much more critical situation.
"Ladies and Gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. Excuse the short delay, we have to hang around up here for 5 or 10 minutes until we can read the instruments clearly again and our night vision has returned. Hope you're enjoying the flight..."
I once got a "shot" from a 150mW laser, smack bang in the centre of vision. Freak accident - microscope slide falling over into the beam, very freakily passed through the beam at exactly the right angle to hit my eye. It was only the weak reflection that got me. The perfectly circular spot in the centre of my vision took two days to vanish (with no permanent damage, thank God) but it DID scare the ever loving crap out of me. Literally.
It went kind of like this....
...... ...... ...... For the record, a class 4 laser is bright enough that even looking at the spot on a wall can damage your vision. Class 4 will also burn skin faster than a lit match, sort of smells like sausages when you do, AND HURTS LIKE
!!!!
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this is quite surreal . . . . . . . .
An expert on these things is telling us that
and yet alongside that post is an advert for the sale of lasers of greater than 400 mW.
It's difficult to believe that one is seeing this on a site so supposedly reputable and responsible as PPRuNe. Very few times I am lost for adequate words . . . . . but this is one of them. I have no arguments with the moderators (well, only a couple), but my disgust at the owners/bosses of the site is getting greater by the day.
sale of any of class 3B or class 4 lasers (anything greater than 5mW power) is illegal to the public
It's difficult to believe that one is seeing this on a site so supposedly reputable and responsible as PPRuNe. Very few times I am lost for adequate words . . . . . but this is one of them. I have no arguments with the moderators (well, only a couple), but my disgust at the owners/bosses of the site is getting greater by the day.
And where may I ask, did you purchase the offending laser which was responsible for the diversion and resulting delay in scheduled arrival of said aircraft, along with the resulting eye damage to the first officer.
Well milaud, it was advertised on that well known website for professional pilots Pprune
Well milaud, it was advertised on that well known website for professional pilots Pprune
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After what DrKey wrote earlier, I start to agree more and more with the previous posts.
PPRuNe, Google, eBay, and any other "reputable" sites should be made fully aware of this kind of illegal trade, and at least try to eliminate THEIR advertising of such items.
Anything useful we can do from our end?
PPRuNe, Google, eBay, and any other "reputable" sites should be made fully aware of this kind of illegal trade, and at least try to eliminate THEIR advertising of such items.
Anything useful we can do from our end?
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Anything useful we can do from our end?
...changing the thread title for the third or fourth time doesn't fool anyone at all.
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fantastic . . . . . . . !
Yes. Stop writing the word "l***r". The Google software detects it and generates the ads in response
What a brilliant chap ! Why couldn't PPRuNe do that, if it was that simple ?
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Quote:
Anything useful we can do from our end?
Yes. Stop writing the word 'l@ser'. The Google software detects it and generates the ads in response.
Anything useful we can do from our end?
Yes. Stop writing the word 'l@ser'. The Google software detects it and generates the ads in response.
But the word is still in the thread title at the top of the page.
I did suggest another method, but it appears to have been 'moderated'.
I did suggest another method, but it appears to have been 'moderated'.