L@ser attacks on Aircraft
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Ptolemee and Herrschel did not need lasers
Originally Posted by Machinbird
I had an opportunity to try these on at a recent air show and they seem to do the job quite well.
Astronomy amateurs are still too often using green lasers during stars watching meetings to show a point/star/observed galaxy position in the sky. They are used too to point a satellite or ISS. Sometimes it is a wrong observation and instead a satellite they point an aircraft!
Really astronomy amateurs do not need lasers, the chart of the sky is enough. A good organisation of the evening getting progressiveely darker helps beginners to navigate between increasing number of stars and learn that geography after good briefing . It is much better than agressive lasers.
Lasers used on telescopes as pointers are dangerous too when suddenly you discover an aircraft before the moon for instance and are turning quickly the telescopes toward the aircraft and the laser pointer with it!
Couldn't we have to do something like the radio qualification where we would be sworing proper use of lasers, learning the regulation and how and why laser is dangerous.
I am seeing that astronomy amateurs are totally unaware of the danger and discovering on that thread the very high frequency of lasers "attacks" conscious or not.
I listened that some astronomy amateurs around me were estonished to see police coming in the middle of the night
and developped conspiration theory to explain such a visit.The use of protective glasses or their clip version during critical parts of the flight surely would be useful, waiting ful protective coatings of the windshield.
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Anyone looking for tonns of data on this subject - welcome to Cairo! Tens of lasers point at every aircraft on approach at night. If you are late to switch off all your exterior lights, there is no escape as the aircraft is already shining green.
And your are talking about single beams here...
And your are talking about single beams here...
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The high-power (>20W per beam) devices used in astronomical adaptive optics (they create artificial guide stars in the sodium layer about 90km up) are necessary for science, unlike the amateur "pointer" devices. Their use is co-ordinated with ATC centres, and observatories employ aircraft spotters just in case of unforseen events such as detours and diversions. Aircraft and coherent light can co-exist in harmony!
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Laser proof windows and fields?
Dropped a line to Boeing re compound/materials used in cockpit windows asking if a laser resistant compound or covering is being researched.
Is there a fequency / power force that can disable the unregistered laser beam and or device either with an umbrella force field x miles around airports or around the nose of aircraft?
It is attempted murder and these jerks should be given at the very least the Cuckoo's Nest therapy.
Is there a fequency / power force that can disable the unregistered laser beam and or device either with an umbrella force field x miles around airports or around the nose of aircraft?
It is attempted murder and these jerks should be given at the very least the Cuckoo's Nest therapy.
Last edited by Nicolaus Silver; 24th Sep 2013 at 22:18.
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Gotta love the Fleet Street headline writers:
EXCLUSIVE: Laser horror as attempts to blind pilots puts UK passengers at risk | UK | News | Daily Express
EXCLUSIVE: Laser horror as attempts to blind pilots puts UK passengers at risk | UK | News | Daily Express
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Man gets 4 months for laser attack
Kent man got 4 months sentence for endangering the safety of an aircraft.
Young Sittingbourne man William Rye locked up for shining laser at Essex Police helicopter
"Not quite the whole ticket".... a lovely euphemism for "shouldn't be allowed lethal weapons" I submit.
Pity all aircraft aren't fitted with devices capable of pin-pointing the source.
Young Sittingbourne man William Rye locked up for shining laser at Essex Police helicopter
"Not quite the whole ticket".... a lovely euphemism for "shouldn't be allowed lethal weapons" I submit.
Pity all aircraft aren't fitted with devices capable of pin-pointing the source.
It's a shame this idiot didn't get a custodial sentence. Judge gave 8 months suspended, despite another high court judge saying almost exactly 12 months ago that anyone shining a laser pen at an aircraft should expect to be jailed.
Laser pen 'could have killed Lady Gaga and other MTV stars at Belfast awards show' - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk
Laser pen 'could have killed Lady Gaga and other MTV stars at Belfast awards show' - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk
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lol fizz 
Seemingly lasers of the green wavelength are the more dangerous ones. Perhaps we need to simply ban those and only allow people to use red ones? Or am I talking bull?
Edit: btw, the above was actually posted at 09:25 BST on 09/10/2013 (i.e. after fizz's comment). Not sure what the server is doing.
Seemingly lasers of the green wavelength are the more dangerous ones. Perhaps we need to simply ban those and only allow people to use red ones? Or am I talking bull?
Edit: btw, the above was actually posted at 09:25 BST on 09/10/2013 (i.e. after fizz's comment). Not sure what the server is doing.
Last edited by G-F0RC3; 8th Oct 2013 at 23:36.
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It's a shame this idiot didn't get a custodial sentence. Judge gave 8 months suspended, despite another high court judge saying almost exactly 12 months ago that anyone shining a laser pen at an aircraft should expect to be jailed.
Laser pen 'could have killed Lady Gaga and other MTV stars at Belfast awards show' - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk
Laser pen 'could have killed Lady Gaga and other MTV stars at Belfast awards show' - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk
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As long as these devices can be purchased in ever bigger quantities with ever more quality for €5 on any holiday resort location in EU and beyond, intended for fun use in local nightlife, or in stationary shops to assist in those presentations given to anyone form students to the board of directors...
These attacks will continue to happen.
The public cannot be taught because some:
- don't want to listen;
- don't want to accept it's dangerous;
- think it's funny;
- practice to see if they can shine on that fast approaching aircraft having tried it on cars before...
We can and should all try and arrest the guy behind it.
But when approaching an airport at 140kts ground speed below 500ft AAL and a laser is shone at you from your 10 o'clock position in a residential area, it is hard enough to remain stabilized on approach with the distraction of a light show in the flight deck, let alone be expected to identify the location of the offenders so the police can go look for some possibly kids having acquired a laser during their last holiday playing on a street corner.
These attacks will continue to happen.
The public cannot be taught because some:
- don't want to listen;
- don't want to accept it's dangerous;
- think it's funny;
- practice to see if they can shine on that fast approaching aircraft having tried it on cars before...
We can and should all try and arrest the guy behind it.
But when approaching an airport at 140kts ground speed below 500ft AAL and a laser is shone at you from your 10 o'clock position in a residential area, it is hard enough to remain stabilized on approach with the distraction of a light show in the flight deck, let alone be expected to identify the location of the offenders so the police can go look for some possibly kids having acquired a laser during their last holiday playing on a street corner.
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Sheep dog
Union could kick up a fuss enough to make relevant state authorities to be made accountable* to legislate now and suggest:
(a) Lasers added to contraband list at customs.
(b) $100 tax at point of sale
(c) Only purchasable by registered users.
(d) If a laser found to be illicitly used its user jailed, importer and or wholesaler fined $x.
(e) Laser classified legally as a weapon.
Union could hit the relevant bodies with declaration that having been warned of the dangers that if a plane comes down/damaged then Congress, department and politicians are morally responsible. Pyro technics sales and usage have been legislated for at state/city level, now its time to regulate lasers.
But the Union approach must pilot a huge angle of attack to disturb Authority's still air and vortex them into pulling strings so Justice dept can act.
(a) Lasers added to contraband list at customs.
(b) $100 tax at point of sale
(c) Only purchasable by registered users.
(d) If a laser found to be illicitly used its user jailed, importer and or wholesaler fined $x.
(e) Laser classified legally as a weapon.
Union could hit the relevant bodies with declaration that having been warned of the dangers that if a plane comes down/damaged then Congress, department and politicians are morally responsible. Pyro technics sales and usage have been legislated for at state/city level, now its time to regulate lasers.
But the Union approach must pilot a huge angle of attack to disturb Authority's still air and vortex them into pulling strings so Justice dept can act.
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A fitting punishment
As PPRuNers assuredly already know, the root of aeronautics law is admiralty law and jurisdiction. So let's consider...in Her Majesty's Royal Navy in, let's say, 1853, if some person, let's call him "L" for l@ser, had pointed some device, let's say it was a 19th-century version such as a whale-oil lamp with a rig of mirrors and magnifying lenses, at the helmsman of a corvette as she was brought into port, what would L have been subjected to? If not a seaman, flogging seems unlikely. Jailing? Conscription into the nether-holds of the rottenest ship in the fleet? It would take some real legal research to determine the classification of the crime and its punishment, but I'd venture to say that interference with navigation indeed was known to the common law courts, or more likely the bench sitting in admiralty.
What is the contemporary equivalent? For interference with navigation, I would propose the punishment of conscripted civilian naval service: for one convicted of said offense, a minimum of 12 months aboard the LEAST rat-free vessel in the host nation's navy, confined to quarters adjacent to the galley, where L will work at washing dishes, pots and pans, and floor mats, and will not be allowed above decks other than for perfect conduct, obedience and behavior.
And no liberty allowed, port of call regardless. Though, if my own stint as a galley-swab-Eh?-platebuster is any guide or indication, liberties, and certain of them, would be taken.
What is the contemporary equivalent? For interference with navigation, I would propose the punishment of conscripted civilian naval service: for one convicted of said offense, a minimum of 12 months aboard the LEAST rat-free vessel in the host nation's navy, confined to quarters adjacent to the galley, where L will work at washing dishes, pots and pans, and floor mats, and will not be allowed above decks other than for perfect conduct, obedience and behavior.
And no liberty allowed, port of call regardless. Though, if my own stint as a galley-swab-Eh?-platebuster is any guide or indication, liberties, and certain of them, would be taken.
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Guy arrested in Oregon. This would presumably be at PDX, although the airport is not mentioned in the article.
Oregon Man Accused of Pointing Laser at Aircraft - ABC News
"...it's hard to catch perpetrators because the beams are hard to track."
Damn those laser manufacturers for including the "slider," "curveball," and "knuckleball" options* on their products. Bastards!
* "Googly," "leg break," and "inswing" might be similar options for those who use wickets along with their bases.
Oregon Man Accused of Pointing Laser at Aircraft - ABC News
"...it's hard to catch perpetrators because the beams are hard to track."
Damn those laser manufacturers for including the "slider," "curveball," and "knuckleball" options* on their products. Bastards!
* "Googly," "leg break," and "inswing" might be similar options for those who use wickets along with their bases.
Last edited by fotoguzzi; 22nd Oct 2013 at 19:18.
I have been on the receiving end of one of these and it was very distracting. I wonder if a partial solution might be to modulate the beam with a unique digital identifier code which is allocated to each device. When they are sold, the buyer must produce identification which then matches the device. Police aircraft and perhaps a percentage of civil aircraft are fitted with a decoding receiver.
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Identifying a particular laser
Police aircraft carry spectrographs that can give a very good idea of whether the laser the scrote is arrested with is the one that was shone at the aircraft, if everyone has the time and inclination.
Last night travelling home through Frankfurt I had the first laser I'd seen shining at an aircraft I was on as we approached - a very bright green flash from south of the river west of the city that definitely got the overwing exit window. I saw it coming as a flickering green light, and then whack!
Last night travelling home through Frankfurt I had the first laser I'd seen shining at an aircraft I was on as we approached - a very bright green flash from south of the river west of the city that definitely got the overwing exit window. I saw it coming as a flickering green light, and then whack!