BA hero wants to quit
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They didn't. It was LGW to IAH but then again, when have the media ever been interested in something as trivial as the facts!
You know what? I'm sick to death of the British media and the way they can't wait to knock anything and anyone and screw whether the facts fit or not. When was the last time any of them reported a story about anything good without adding a negative spin on it? I can't think of anything off hand.
When I worked at a previous charter airline, (also another very well known British Airline - is there a trend here?) we had a massive expose from a bitter temp that hadn't been kept on at the end of the season, telling everyone all about the things that supposedly went on between crew during nightstops. It didn't seem to bother the paper involved that she'd never done a
nightstop in her life and that her claims could cause a lot of tension in families. Nor did it stop certain passengers thinking that they then had to right to feel us up, to check out whether some of her claims were true either!
And what about the cross fiasco and the stupid woman going on about her rights. Again it didn't seem to bother the press or this publicity hungry idiot that pretty much all airlines have the same uniform codes saying jewellery of any kind should be worn under uniforms and that she quite happily signed up to this when she was offered the job. It did however, make me laugh when all the high profile sheep jumped on the band wagon by vowing never to fly with an airline with this sort of policy. Dover's that way guys! Plenty of boats there.
Now, here we are again with this story from yet another so called "source within BA" and of course, the racism row from the Independent thanks to another person that, it seems, hasn't got his own way and has decided to throw teddy out of the pram in a bid for some free publicity. Strange that he's left it so late in his career to speak out. (I'm talking about his political aspirations by the way.)
Sorry, I know this is a major thread drift and feel free to ignore it/delete it etc. but I'm losing the will here. I'm not saying all is well within BA or in fact, a lot of airlines if the other threads are anything to go by, but why do the media seem to be able to report what the hell they want regardless of the truth? I can only hope that most "normal" people will see it all for what it is. Sensationalism with very little, if any depth!
Sorry, rant over. I'll go back to my own threads now!
JSL
You know what? I'm sick to death of the British media and the way they can't wait to knock anything and anyone and screw whether the facts fit or not. When was the last time any of them reported a story about anything good without adding a negative spin on it? I can't think of anything off hand.
When I worked at a previous charter airline, (also another very well known British Airline - is there a trend here?) we had a massive expose from a bitter temp that hadn't been kept on at the end of the season, telling everyone all about the things that supposedly went on between crew during nightstops. It didn't seem to bother the paper involved that she'd never done a
nightstop in her life and that her claims could cause a lot of tension in families. Nor did it stop certain passengers thinking that they then had to right to feel us up, to check out whether some of her claims were true either! And what about the cross fiasco and the stupid woman going on about her rights. Again it didn't seem to bother the press or this publicity hungry idiot that pretty much all airlines have the same uniform codes saying jewellery of any kind should be worn under uniforms and that she quite happily signed up to this when she was offered the job. It did however, make me laugh when all the high profile sheep jumped on the band wagon by vowing never to fly with an airline with this sort of policy. Dover's that way guys! Plenty of boats there.
Now, here we are again with this story from yet another so called "source within BA" and of course, the racism row from the Independent thanks to another person that, it seems, hasn't got his own way and has decided to throw teddy out of the pram in a bid for some free publicity. Strange that he's left it so late in his career to speak out. (I'm talking about his political aspirations by the way.)
Sorry, I know this is a major thread drift and feel free to ignore it/delete it etc. but I'm losing the will here. I'm not saying all is well within BA or in fact, a lot of airlines if the other threads are anything to go by, but why do the media seem to be able to report what the hell they want regardless of the truth? I can only hope that most "normal" people will see it all for what it is. Sensationalism with very little, if any depth!
Sorry, rant over. I'll go back to my own threads now!
JSL
Last edited by jetset lady; 28th Apr 2008 at 20:06.
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JetSet Lady
Sorry about the touch up at the charter liner, it wasn't me! But for you to state on record that not all is well with BA, a sentiment I personally agree, then state that the press is sensationalist do not compute. Certainly I think the point of the Independent article rests squarely with the offloading of the Nigerian passengers. Mr Maughan's comments of the racism within BA and particularily the distinct failure to deal with it merely reenforced the argument. The Nigerian incident, if you didn't notice is a international incident, it will cause BA 'bottomline problems', I also feel your dimissive attitude that persons not agreeing with BA treatment head for Dover and a fleet of boats is out of order. INdeed a typical my way or highway attitude that exists within BA. Keep up the good work. (Rant over)
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The sad fact of the matter is that all these reports in the press are doing more damage to Cpt Burkhill and his reputation and personal life then it is to BA. Slagging off BA is nothing more then a victimless attack (and something everyone is all used to...and perhaps fed up of hearing, no one really listens to it anymore IMHO) but what it is claimed that Cpt Burkhill said and the fact that they have mentioned over and over that he is depressed can do nothing for his credibility as a pilot after all this is said and done. This will life with him for the rest of his life.
Lets not forget the legacy left behind after the BA plane that almost crashed into the hotel on the Bath Road!
Lets not forget the legacy left behind after the BA plane that almost crashed into the hotel on the Bath Road!
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The sad fact of the matter once all the packaging and excess baggage has been removed is that the general attitude or "culture" within BA is/has been heading in the wrong direction for sometime.
If it takes a few headline grabbing articles, irrespective of the precentage of factual content to indicate to "management" that a change in direction and attitude is urgently required, then so be it.
BA needs to get back to where it once was, a worldleading, worldbeating organisation that set the benchmark. What we are witnessing now is nothing more than the symptoms borne from a management team that wants to compete down in the gutter.
If it takes a few headline grabbing articles, irrespective of the precentage of factual content to indicate to "management" that a change in direction and attitude is urgently required, then so be it.
BA needs to get back to where it once was, a worldleading, worldbeating organisation that set the benchmark. What we are witnessing now is nothing more than the symptoms borne from a management team that wants to compete down in the gutter.
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Why does this always happen. Aircraft accident occurs and within 30 seconds everyone and his dog knows or thinks they know what went wrong. The UK has the AAIB and other countries their equivilent. In my time in the UK I only ever heard praise for the AAIB. Heres a suggestion, why dont we let the professionals do the thorough, scientific and independant investigation that they are world renowned for !!!
Capt Burkhill, you have my sincere sympathy, if the accident does'nt kill you, the enquiry will.
Chin up mate.
Capt Burkhill, you have my sincere sympathy, if the accident does'nt kill you, the enquiry will.
Chin up mate.
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Froze up?
Agree with most that it would be instinct to take over control and shove everything forward, will be interesting to see what actually happened, the crew deserves all the benefit of doubt here, selecting less flap was brilliant thinking, hardly the sign of freezing up. Best wishes to the crew!
Best wishes to the crew!
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the incident had been criticised by a trainer on a course they had recently attended, the Mirror reports. They said they had been told Captain Burkill had ‘frozen’ the moment the Boeing lost power.
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Yamaha post *66
I agree with your sentiments.
I personally think that the management at the top of the tree should be booted out sharpish and new blood parachuted in Rod Edlington springs to mind.
I believe that its still not too late to save the reputation of this once proud airline that almost everyone was proud indeed to come to work for with a spring in their step.
Still that's my two bobs worth.
I personally think that the management at the top of the tree should be booted out sharpish and new blood parachuted in Rod Edlington springs to mind.
I believe that its still not too late to save the reputation of this once proud airline that almost everyone was proud indeed to come to work for with a spring in their step.
Still that's my two bobs worth.
Last edited by d71146; 29th Apr 2008 at 07:56.
Shark Slayer (hope it stays that way)
Agreed.
Capt Burkhill was good enough to pass a BA command course.
No-one (and that includes flight engineers and navigators) who has not flown in command knows what it entails. Although, I did consider that it was usually easier than being the FO
Capt Burkhill must remember this and use whatever positive self re-assurance techniques he can to support his confidence. After any kind of incident, self searching begins but one must remember that, whilst one has months in which to come up with alternative courses of action there were only seconds at the time of the incident.
He will need support from friends and family. When on a particularly irritating Far East course, my wife offered to send us a crate of 'Illegitimii Non Carborundum' cathay mugs.
Agreed.
Capt Burkhill was good enough to pass a BA command course.
No-one (and that includes flight engineers and navigators) who has not flown in command knows what it entails. Although, I did consider that it was usually easier than being the FO
Capt Burkhill must remember this and use whatever positive self re-assurance techniques he can to support his confidence. After any kind of incident, self searching begins but one must remember that, whilst one has months in which to come up with alternative courses of action there were only seconds at the time of the incident.
He will need support from friends and family. When on a particularly irritating Far East course, my wife offered to send us a crate of 'Illegitimii Non Carborundum' cathay mugs.
After any kind of incident, self searching begins but one must remember that, whilst one has months in which to come up with alternative courses of action there were only seconds at the time of the incident.
Woodpecker's piece about the new entry trainees and the SEP instructor is very worrying.
If he is being funny then it's a good joke for the pub.
If there is indeed someone trotting out this anti-flight deck vitiol to new entrants - then it should stop.
No witch hunt just remove him/her!
MC
If he is being funny then it's a good joke for the pub.
If there is indeed someone trotting out this anti-flight deck vitiol to new entrants - then it should stop.
No witch hunt just remove him/her!
MC
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Capt Burkill hasn't contacted the media.
The first time it was cabin crew colleagues with some saucy pictures to sell.
This time it was someone who knew him.
If the Mirror had spoken directly to him they might have got their facts and figures right rather than having to make them up.
It's the same with the recent Independent article about BA pilots.
Old news, dug up (or rather sent to them by another party after BA sent them confidential info in error or whatever reason) and made front page. Not initiated by the subject.
Obviously a no news day and the press trying to keep the bad BA theme going. Shouldn't have to wait long for the next real story though.
If he went to Virgin he would have to start as an FO. Emirates take Captains though.
The first time it was cabin crew colleagues with some saucy pictures to sell.
This time it was someone who knew him.
If the Mirror had spoken directly to him they might have got their facts and figures right rather than having to make them up.
It's the same with the recent Independent article about BA pilots.
Old news, dug up (or rather sent to them by another party after BA sent them confidential info in error or whatever reason) and made front page. Not initiated by the subject.
Obviously a no news day and the press trying to keep the bad BA theme going. Shouldn't have to wait long for the next real story though.
If he went to Virgin he would have to start as an FO. Emirates take Captains though.
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,,,,but was devastated when two members of the cabin crew told him his actions during the incident had been criticised by a trainer on a course they had recently attended, the Mirror reports. They said they had been told Captain Burkill had ‘frozen’ the moment the Boeing lost power.
Hmmm, perhaps this sums up BA to a 'T'....CC run the airline, instead of Flt Ops.
Said 'trainer' should be dismissed without delay, IMO.
Looking on the bright side for the Captain, it ain't bad duty to be paid while sitting at home...golf anyone? Tennis perhaps?
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411A
It just shows how little you know about BA! CC, especially LGW CC, run the airline? You must be joking! We're just pawns to the management, along with the rest of the frontline/ground staff.
I'm sorry but, knowing the crew involved, I'm very sceptical about these comments anyway and I have to say, I've never heard any anti flight crew sentiments from trainers in my time at BA. In fact it's usually the complete opposite. Then again, maybe I've been lucky enought to have good trainers all the way through!
JSL
I'm sorry but, knowing the crew involved, I'm very sceptical about these comments anyway and I have to say, I've never heard any anti flight crew sentiments from trainers in my time at BA. In fact it's usually the complete opposite. Then again, maybe I've been lucky enought to have good trainers all the way through!
JSL
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Why does this always happen. Aircraft accident occurs and within 30 seconds everyone and his dog knows or thinks they know what went wrong. The UK has the AAIB and other countries their equivilent. In my time in the UK I only ever heard praise for the AAIB. Heres a suggestion, why dont we let the professionals do the thorough, scientific and independant investigation that they are world renowned for !!!
News is entertainment. We are its consumers. When something like this happens we all tut tut at the shallow superficiality of it all, but we still tune in to watch. The real investigation might take months or years to determine the cause. When it eventually does it might even be worthy of a brief 30 second mention on those news channels if time and other breaking news commitments permit. The truth is from a news point of view, it is yesterdays news and most people have either forgotten or don't want to know anymore.
These days it is often the case that, whether we have a vested interest, morbid curiosity or no idea at all, we expect to watch our wars as transmitted "flashes" from a suite balcony at the nearby Hilton hotel. Authenticity is a celebrity reporter in a flak jacket and helmet, reading to a mobile phone camera. This, alternating with their other commitments in the studio, or taking part in some "reality TV competition or talent show". We want to know by the end of the day why an aircraft crashed. If we don't actually know, we expect the eyewitnesses and on-call experts to have provided enough pulp and roughage to have digested the likely (spoon fed) cause in our own mind.
News is no longer simply reporting an event. It is about providing opinion and delivering it as entertainment. The newspapers then have their turn the following morning, their lateness compensated by the fact they can pick the best of the previous days photos to use on their front page. This news media entertainment has been evolving for decades and cannot possibly surprise anybody anymore !
For the participants in these events the realities are normally much less superficial. There are months and years of the real problems that often associate with any serious trauma. Stress, Stress disorders, changes to routine, changes in the behaviour of family and friends, changes in lifestyle, threat of uncertainty, threat to security, boredom, feelings of guilt, feelings of despair, feelings of anger. These are just a few of the many serious and often debillitating aspects of a trauma that can affect an individual for months or years after the adrenalin has worn off. Perhaps it is understandable why some victims turn to the media when the media is popularly perceived as coming up with answers within a single day ? What isn't so understandable is why those who should have a duty of responsibility and care (including the CEO of a company) would choose or allow the obviously shocked participants to be publically paraded in front of the media within hours of a such a serious incident occuring ? Maybe that particular "buck" didn't stop here !
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But Pilots?
Of course the media will jump on anything resembling a story & without any consideration for the impact on the people involved but Pilots?
How the hell can any of us know what it was like or what we would have done.....we weren't there!
If this kind of crucifiction is what you get when everyone walks away from it heaven help any pilot who survives a crash where people die.
How the hell can any of us know what it was like or what we would have done.....we weren't there!
If this kind of crucifiction is what you get when everyone walks away from it heaven help any pilot who survives a crash where people die.
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you're all still missing the point.
If BA management would just get around to managing in a professional manner you would very rarely have something for the press to latch onto.
The old adage "there's no smoke without fire" comes to mind. If you seriously believe that the mirror just invented this to sell newspapers dream on. They have latched onto an element of truth and are making the most out of it. Burkill isn't actually the news, he's a pawn. BA are the news and they draw in the crowds. Thats the reality of the 21st century.
But even that said, the old adage holds true. There really is no smoke without fire. Makes no difference whether he is a nice guy, a hero or the bad guy.
If BA management would just get around to managing in a professional manner you would very rarely have something for the press to latch onto.
The old adage "there's no smoke without fire" comes to mind. If you seriously believe that the mirror just invented this to sell newspapers dream on. They have latched onto an element of truth and are making the most out of it. Burkill isn't actually the news, he's a pawn. BA are the news and they draw in the crowds. Thats the reality of the 21st century.
But even that said, the old adage holds true. There really is no smoke without fire. Makes no difference whether he is a nice guy, a hero or the bad guy.
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The most important bits of the article are in the last few paragraphs and are needed by the mirror to insure them against slander.
So he refused to talk to them or offer any legitimacy to their story. Also note that his wife did not say he was treated appallingly by BA, she may have been referring to his treatment by the Mirror group!
So basically at the end of the article the journo happens to throw in that all of the validation he did to corroborate his sources story is actually more indicative of the story being made up or over exaggerated - But then again why let that get in the way of a nice juicy headline!
Originally Posted by Sunday Mirror
Last night, at his home in Worcester, Captain Burkill refused to be interviewed by the Sunday Mirror. When we put our sources' claims to his wife Maria, she said: "Pete's been treated appallingly. "I'm biased, but I think he's a hero and I think every one of those 151 other people on board his plane that day would say the same."
Originally Posted by Sunday Mirror
Last night BA said: "Captain Burkill is a highly valued member of staff and will continue to receive the full support of British Airways. He has not been grounded by the company or encouraged to stay at home. On the contrary the company has publically supported the crew of BA38.
"Senior flight crew management and representatives from other areas of the airline have been in regular contact with Captain Burkill. This will continue to be the case."
"Senior flight crew management and representatives from other areas of the airline have been in regular contact with Captain Burkill. This will continue to be the case."
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The source of this story seems pretty obvious to me. The name of Virgin Atlantic features in the Sunday Mirror story twice. Capt Burkill allegedly applied to VS for a new position. Who, other than the captain himself and family, would have known this?
A case of "dirty tricks" in reverse, I think you'll find....
A case of "dirty tricks" in reverse, I think you'll find....