BA hero wants to quit
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Oh dear, you people can't read, can you?
His earlier post says this:
Personally, I can't imagine a worse time for something to happen than at the end of a LH sector, ...... BUT.....I am in absolutely no doubt that had I been the Captain, right or wrong, I would have taken control on the grounds that I was going to be responsible anyway, and that it's probable I'd make a better fist of things than a low time Second Officer - and that's not to denigrate the S/O.
His wording is wrong and is not applicable to the BA incident. How clear can I be?
His earlier post says this:
Personally, I can't imagine a worse time for something to happen than at the end of a LH sector, ...... BUT.....I am in absolutely no doubt that had I been the Captain, right or wrong, I would have taken control on the grounds that I was going to be responsible anyway, and that it's probable I'd make a better fist of things than a low time Second Officer - and that's not to denigrate the S/O.
His wording is wrong and is not applicable to the BA incident. How clear can I be?
rubik101,
Please tell me you are not a pilot.
I'd guess BAmanager is a troll.
I think you will find that from the moment that the engines failed to respond to their inputs, they were pretty much passengers along with everyone else.
I'd guess BAmanager is a troll.
Why is it that BA, who used to term itself 'the world's favourite airline', apparently determined to make itself look bloody stupid on such a regular basis ? I, for one, used to enjoy flying with BA both long and shorthaul as it appeared to be a thoroughly professional airline that looked after its most precious asset namely its customers in a degree of style.
After various re-branding exercises which did not work and the use of franchise operations hiving out routes to low-cost operators we now have the debacle of T5, reports of racist flightdeck crews, front line headlines in the Sunday Mirror about hero pilots. Is it not time that someone within British Airways took a grip ?
After various re-branding exercises which did not work and the use of franchise operations hiving out routes to low-cost operators we now have the debacle of T5, reports of racist flightdeck crews, front line headlines in the Sunday Mirror about hero pilots. Is it not time that someone within British Airways took a grip ?
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Reading between the lines of the AAIB and the internet comments on this case.
Leaving the FO as the PIC and reducing the HLDs may prove to be the best decisions made that day.
Have the PR team come back from holiday yet ?
Leaving the FO as the PIC and reducing the HLDs may prove to be the best decisions made that day.
Have the PR team come back from holiday yet ?
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Perhaps in a situation like that, defining the handling non-landing flying pilot monitoring in command tends to confuse the issue.
Anyone got any chocolate?
Anyone got any chocolate?
PPRuNe Person
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I suggest that we wait for the CVR, I suggest we wait for AAIB final report.
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Censorship
Kurtz and Basil refer to my second post on the subject, both of which have been deleted by the Mods, just in case you were wondering what they were referring to.
I wish the Mods would write and explain to me just what they found so disagreeable.
Criticism is obviously out of order here now.
Time to fight back, or leave this sham of a forum.
I wish the Mods would write and explain to me just what they found so disagreeable.
Criticism is obviously out of order here now.
Time to fight back, or leave this sham of a forum.
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Well rubik if my memory serves me correctly at least one of your deleted posts was insulting toward the 777 crew so perhaps that's why it was deleted.
Fight back at the mods? How would you do that exactly?
Leave? That'd be easier. On all of us. Be a good fellow and take BAMANAGER, Tondem Rator and their many but obvious other personae with you please.
Fight back at the mods? How would you do that exactly?
Leave? That'd be easier. On all of us. Be a good fellow and take BAMANAGER, Tondem Rator and their many but obvious other personae with you please.
Mistrust in Management
Beamer does seem to have a point
Apologies for the thread creep (although I'm not the first)
Firstly I would like to say well done to both the Captain and F/O on that flight, fantastic stuff.
Back to the thread creep - it does seem as if the worlds favorite isn't anymore.
Seems to me that BA had all the slots and a very professional operation, and now it just seems to have - well slots I suppose.
The staff generally seem to do their best under quite difficult circumstances, but the Management seem to be pursueing an entirely different agenda than that of efficient airline operations.
The media are carrying a great deal of negative stuff on BA for obvious reasons. If the Management don't get a grip that share price is going to fall even lower.
Best of luck to all the staff.
Kind Regards
Exeng
Firstly I would like to say well done to both the Captain and F/O on that flight, fantastic stuff.
Back to the thread creep - it does seem as if the worlds favorite isn't anymore.
Seems to me that BA had all the slots and a very professional operation, and now it just seems to have - well slots I suppose.
The staff generally seem to do their best under quite difficult circumstances, but the Management seem to be pursueing an entirely different agenda than that of efficient airline operations.
The media are carrying a great deal of negative stuff on BA for obvious reasons. If the Management don't get a grip that share price is going to fall even lower.
Best of luck to all the staff.
Kind Regards
Exeng
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Flap5 :I'm afraid my natural reaction as captain WOULD be to take control, based on the fact that we are crash landing and my signature is in the tech log.
Your assertion that the FO is normally a better handling pilot is a wild generalisation - we do the same OPCs/LPCs !
I don't fear mechanical failure on the plane, what i fear is all the
spotters on here slagging me off for the next three months......
Your assertion that the FO is normally a better handling pilot is a wild generalisation - we do the same OPCs/LPCs !
I don't fear mechanical failure on the plane, what i fear is all the
spotters on here slagging me off for the next three months......
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By definition whatever Capt Burkill, SFO Coward and the heavy did was correct as no one died on an a/c that tried to kill them. The criticisms are about finer points, which are several magnitudes of reality removed from the great job that was done.
I really wish Capt Burkill the best, it isn't hard to see how re-living the events in his mind every waking day can cause a lot of stress. He is a hero because he walked away from his striken a/c after all his crew and passengers were accounted for, alive, thanks to his decisions.
Not many airlines fly the BA monitored approach method. But to clarify once control is handed over it would be unlikely to improve things if the Capt took control back. SFO Coward is as capable at crash landing as Capt Burkill.
I really wish Capt Burkill the best, it isn't hard to see how re-living the events in his mind every waking day can cause a lot of stress. He is a hero because he walked away from his striken a/c after all his crew and passengers were accounted for, alive, thanks to his decisions.
Not many airlines fly the BA monitored approach method. But to clarify once control is handed over it would be unlikely to improve things if the Capt took control back. SFO Coward is as capable at crash landing as Capt Burkill.
...
Flap5 :I'm afraid my natural reaction as captain WOULD be to take control, based on the fact that we are crash landing and my signature is in the tech log.
Your assertion that the FO is normally a better handling pilot is a wild generalisation - we do the same OPCs/LPCs !
Your assertion that the FO is normally a better handling pilot is a wild generalisation - we do the same OPCs/LPCs !
A natural reaction would be skill and knowlege based taking into account only present tense events with little thought to the future beyond minutes away.
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You guys make me laugh, a natural reaction would be to take control just because my signature is in the tech log??
I doubt that would be in my mind 35seconds from impact.
No rights or wrongs I think. Just the thought police saying this is how it should be done need to think twice before posting.
If it's true that Capt. Burkill selected a lesser flap setting and therefore cleared the fence and the road then in my opinion he's done the right thing to let the SFO get on with it and think of things to improve the outcome of an unbelievable accident.
Let's wait for the AAIB report.
I doubt that would be in my mind 35seconds from impact.
No rights or wrongs I think. Just the thought police saying this is how it should be done need to think twice before posting.
If it's true that Capt. Burkill selected a lesser flap setting and therefore cleared the fence and the road then in my opinion he's done the right thing to let the SFO get on with it and think of things to improve the outcome of an unbelievable accident.
Let's wait for the AAIB report.
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http://www.uk-airport-news.info/heat...ws-270408a.htm
The BA pilot at the controls in the Heathrow Airport crash landing is planning to quit the airline in disgust at the way bosses have treated him, the Mirror reports. Captain Peter Burkill, 43, says he is a ‘broken man’ and feels betrayed after being effectively grounded and having his pay docked. He also says he has been refused the support he needs to start flying again, and that BA have not done enough to halt rumours that he ‘froze’ when co-pilot John Coward landed the packed Boeing 777 on the runway on January.
The newspaper says that he has told friends: ‘I've had enough. They told me I was a hero - but they've treated me like a fool. They said they would be there for me after the crash but I feel badly let down.’
On the afternoon of January 17, Captain Burkill had already handed control of BA flight 038 to Second Officer John Coward when it lost power. But he aided the crash-landing and hours later the pair were paraded as heroes in front of the world's media by triumphant BA Chief Executive Willie Walsh, who said: ‘The captain is one of our most experienced. We are very proud of him.’
Second Officer John Coward and the plane's third pilot soon returned to normal, fully-paid flying duties.
However, Captain Burkill took time off with post-traumatic stress - and within days learned that his salary had been halved from £120,000 to £60,000 through lost bonuses. Weeks of acrimony followed before his salary was increased to £90,000 through the reinstation of a flying bonus, but his away-from-home bonus, worth £30,000 a year, is still being withheld the newspaper reports.
And now he claims BA don't want him to fly again until the inquiry into the cause of the crash is completed. The Mirror quotes a 'BA source' adding: ‘Pete is disgusted at the way he has been treated. He was the hero of the hour and responsible for saving the plane. He even had a letter of personal thanks from the chief executive Willie Walsh.'
‘It beggars belief. They still won't pay him what he was earning when he was flying but it's their fault he can't fly because their report is still not finished. He hasn't been officially grounded because he hasn't had his licence revoked. But he's effectively grounded because he can't fly.
‘They even told him off when they found out he'd sent a couple of the flight's passengers thank-you cards for gifts they'd sent him for saving their lives. Their handling of the whole thing has been woeful.’
Captain Burkill has flown only once since the crash - from Heathrow to Houston on February 19 - but was devastated when two members of the cabin crew told him his actions during the incident had been criticised by a trainer on a course they had recently attended, the Mirror reports. They said they had been told Captain Burkill had ‘frozen’ the moment the Boeing lost power.
But air investigators say he in fact made a crucial wing-flap adjustment in the flight's last 25 seconds which saved the lives of everyone on board. Tests show his action gave the powerless plane a vital 27ft of extra lift - and that the plane cleared the airport's perimeter fence by just 7ft.
Mr Burkill has been ‘crushed’ by the rumours that he froze, according to the newspapers 'BA source'. He said: ‘Pete called his manager and demanded that everyone be told exactly what happened in the cockpit that day. He was told it would all be in the internal report and that he should stay at home until it was published. He's asked every week when it will be completed and keeps being told that it's imminent. Meanwhile he's at home getting more and more depressed. Communication is virtually non-existent. He hasn't spoken to anyone at BA for a month and it seems they consider that to be an acceptable situation.’
It is understood that BA's report into the crash will include high praise for Captain Burkill and that the Air Accident Investigation Board inquiry into the crash will exonerate him or any of the other pilots of any blame. However, the married dad-of-five is now considering emigrating to Dubai and has written to Richard Branson asking for a job at Virgin Atlantic.
A BA spokesman told the newspaper: ‘Captain Burkill is a highly valued member of staff and will continue to receive the full support of British Airways. He has not been grounded by the company or encouraged to stay at home. On the contrary the company has publicly supported the crew of BA38. Senior flight crew management and representatives from other areas of the airline have been in regular contact with Captain Burkill. This will continue to be the case.’
The BA pilot at the controls in the Heathrow Airport crash landing is planning to quit the airline in disgust at the way bosses have treated him, the Mirror reports. Captain Peter Burkill, 43, says he is a ‘broken man’ and feels betrayed after being effectively grounded and having his pay docked. He also says he has been refused the support he needs to start flying again, and that BA have not done enough to halt rumours that he ‘froze’ when co-pilot John Coward landed the packed Boeing 777 on the runway on January.
The newspaper says that he has told friends: ‘I've had enough. They told me I was a hero - but they've treated me like a fool. They said they would be there for me after the crash but I feel badly let down.’
On the afternoon of January 17, Captain Burkill had already handed control of BA flight 038 to Second Officer John Coward when it lost power. But he aided the crash-landing and hours later the pair were paraded as heroes in front of the world's media by triumphant BA Chief Executive Willie Walsh, who said: ‘The captain is one of our most experienced. We are very proud of him.’
Second Officer John Coward and the plane's third pilot soon returned to normal, fully-paid flying duties.
However, Captain Burkill took time off with post-traumatic stress - and within days learned that his salary had been halved from £120,000 to £60,000 through lost bonuses. Weeks of acrimony followed before his salary was increased to £90,000 through the reinstation of a flying bonus, but his away-from-home bonus, worth £30,000 a year, is still being withheld the newspaper reports.
And now he claims BA don't want him to fly again until the inquiry into the cause of the crash is completed. The Mirror quotes a 'BA source' adding: ‘Pete is disgusted at the way he has been treated. He was the hero of the hour and responsible for saving the plane. He even had a letter of personal thanks from the chief executive Willie Walsh.'
‘It beggars belief. They still won't pay him what he was earning when he was flying but it's their fault he can't fly because their report is still not finished. He hasn't been officially grounded because he hasn't had his licence revoked. But he's effectively grounded because he can't fly.
‘They even told him off when they found out he'd sent a couple of the flight's passengers thank-you cards for gifts they'd sent him for saving their lives. Their handling of the whole thing has been woeful.’
Captain Burkill has flown only once since the crash - from Heathrow to Houston on February 19 - but was devastated when two members of the cabin crew told him his actions during the incident had been criticised by a trainer on a course they had recently attended, the Mirror reports. They said they had been told Captain Burkill had ‘frozen’ the moment the Boeing lost power.
But air investigators say he in fact made a crucial wing-flap adjustment in the flight's last 25 seconds which saved the lives of everyone on board. Tests show his action gave the powerless plane a vital 27ft of extra lift - and that the plane cleared the airport's perimeter fence by just 7ft.
Mr Burkill has been ‘crushed’ by the rumours that he froze, according to the newspapers 'BA source'. He said: ‘Pete called his manager and demanded that everyone be told exactly what happened in the cockpit that day. He was told it would all be in the internal report and that he should stay at home until it was published. He's asked every week when it will be completed and keeps being told that it's imminent. Meanwhile he's at home getting more and more depressed. Communication is virtually non-existent. He hasn't spoken to anyone at BA for a month and it seems they consider that to be an acceptable situation.’
It is understood that BA's report into the crash will include high praise for Captain Burkill and that the Air Accident Investigation Board inquiry into the crash will exonerate him or any of the other pilots of any blame. However, the married dad-of-five is now considering emigrating to Dubai and has written to Richard Branson asking for a job at Virgin Atlantic.
A BA spokesman told the newspaper: ‘Captain Burkill is a highly valued member of staff and will continue to receive the full support of British Airways. He has not been grounded by the company or encouraged to stay at home. On the contrary the company has publicly supported the crew of BA38. Senior flight crew management and representatives from other areas of the airline have been in regular contact with Captain Burkill. This will continue to be the case.’
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>Captain Burkill has flown only once since the crash - from Heathrow to Houston on February 19 - but was devastated when two members of the
I Didn't think BA started LHR-IAH until the end of March......maybe the Mirror could explain that one!!
I Didn't think BA started LHR-IAH until the end of March......maybe the Mirror could explain that one!!