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Old 7th Mar 2008, 21:08   #1 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
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BALPA and BA talks breakdown

According to BALPA web site the talks between the two sides have broken down.......BA have threatened to get a high court injunction to prevent BA pilots from striking. Not sure thats gonna work. Well done WW.......not !
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Old 7th Mar 2008, 21:14   #2 (permalink)
 
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BA pilots right and truly believe that BA management is going to roll over....ain't gonna happen, you can be sure.
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Old 7th Mar 2008, 21:27   #3 (permalink)
 
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BA management right and truly believes that BA pilots are going to roll over....ain't gonna happen, you can be sure.

Last edited by Panman; 8th Mar 2008 at 03:17.
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Old 7th Mar 2008, 21:40   #4 (permalink)
 
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BA press release

BALPA talks update

We are disappointed that BALPA has chosen to walk away from the talks led by the conciliation service, ACAS. We believe the opportunity remains to reach a peaceful resolution and lift the threat of strikes from our customers.
During the talks we made a number of offers to BALPA that we still believe could resolve the differences between us. We are proud of the professionalism and high reputation of our pilots. We do not want a conflict with them and have not sought one.
We have offered binding assurances that OpenSkies will pose no threat to the terms, conditions and job security of British Airways pilots. Prospects for BA flight crew have never been better. Our plans for expansion at Heathrow and Gatwick mean we will be recruiting more than 300 new BA pilots in the next two years, as the London-based fleet grows to more than 240 aircraft.
Our offer also included making available to BA pilots 50 per cent of flight crew vacancies for the six aircraft currently planned to go into the new airline, while protecting job security and career progression in BA.
OpenSkies is a new airline in a highly competitive market from Continental Europe to the US, and the terms and conditions for its staff must reflect that. BALPA says that terms and conditions for OpenSkies pilots must match those at BA as soon as the airline becomes profitable. This would generate cost and complexity that the new carrier could not sustain. OpenSkies would not be viable - restricting our ability as a company to compete by setting up a European business and putting at risk the creation of 350 new jobs.
We felt it right and fair to give BALPA private notice that we have a valid legal claim against them before they took the disproportionate step of calling a strike. If strike dates are issued, we will act to protect our customers by applying for an injunction.
We must act to protect our customers and explore every option to prevent the massive disruption a strike would cause.
We have made ourselves available to talk with BALPA at any time in order to find a peaceful solution.

Ends
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Old 7th Mar 2008, 21:42   #5 (permalink)
 
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Rip Ba

Whatever the rights or wrongs of any strike, any action will lead to the demise of BA.

Even now, passengers must be booking elsewhere. One only has to read a travel insurance policy to see that, if there is the likelihood of strike action at the time of booking, the insurance is void (I have just checked mine before anyone comments).

Why would anyone want to fork out money on BA flights, only to discover that any strike action now would nulify their policy.

Try Googling "BA strike" to see how many instances of the various stikes over the years there are. Is Arthur Scargill a member of BA staff?
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Old 7th Mar 2008, 21:44   #6 (permalink)
 
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It seems that BA reckon BALPA is denying them the freedom to set up a subsidiary company within Europe. It's a bit of a long stretch if you ask me!

I suspect we are looking at BA eventually scrapping the setting up of Openskies and blaming the pilots for making it too expensive an idea. However, we have actually agreed to accept what ever pay and terms and conditions they want, as long as OS pilots are on our master seniority list (as the intent of our scope agreement dictates).
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Old 7th Mar 2008, 22:06   #7 (permalink)
 
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BBB,

Are you management? You've made ONE POST and it's a straight copy of a management post on the Flight Ops Forum.

Must be serious for someone to work late on a Friday night.
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Old 7th Mar 2008, 22:21   #8 (permalink)
 
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Danger

methinks the BA press release is willie speak for "cop on people,this is real"
cop on may be required!
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Old 7th Mar 2008, 22:45   #9 (permalink)
 
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Some of the them have had the cops on them for a while now.....

Last edited by Dave Bloke; 7th Mar 2008 at 23:01.
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Old 7th Mar 2008, 22:55   #10 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
BALPA says that terms and conditions for OpenSkies pilots must match those at BA as soon as the airline becomes profitable.
Please explain this line from BBB's post.

a) I cannot believe BALPA would demand that - the issue was framed as master seniority
b) It is clearly unviable, and at odds with the former mainline regional operations that operated at a lower cost base
c) The airline as a whole is profitable, therefore this comment makes no sense
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Old 7th Mar 2008, 23:00   #11 (permalink)
 
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a) They didn't. More detail on the BALPA Forum.
b) See a
c) See b
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Old 7th Mar 2008, 23:48   #12 (permalink)
 
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To anyone reading BigBobsBloggs post.

This is a BA manager who will lose a large sum of £££ in the form of a bonus in the event of a strike. This is all they care about. It is this person’s first post and is directly copied from BA internal servers.

BA will make £1,000,000,000 in profit this year. A record profit in a year when they lost a record number of bags, upset a record number of passengers and a year when its staff (including its pilots) apologised to its customers a record number of times. They now want to rob their staff blind.

As a BA pilot I apologise to all in the travelling public for our potential collective actions. We have had enough and in the end are squarely on your side day in and day out. We feel your pain, so please try and see ours. Vote with your feet and give your hard earned money to our competitors. Maybe then they will learn that YOU, our customers should be our number one priority, not the greed of a forever growing bottom line.

Last edited by CanAV8R; 8th Mar 2008 at 00:13.
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Old 8th Mar 2008, 01:30   #13 (permalink)
 
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It used to be the case, that of the 10,000 professional pilot licence holders in the UK or so at the time, BA employed about one third, the RAF accounted for another third, and the rest worked for what was termed the independents.

Having being the employee of two different subsidiary airlines of BA over the years and having on both occasions found myself redundant, I would anticipate that for those considering working for Open Skies, the future might not be what they anticipated.

But on the other hand; if BA pilots were to go on strike and in the event that BA would hire on contract or employ directly pilots to fly their otherwise grounded fleets, I would have no hesitation in working for BA, on my terms. Given that of the aircraft type ratings I hold, four of those types are currently operated by BA, I may of some use to them.

It would be a bold move from Willie to allow a strike to go ahead; but if he did and given that the proportion of RAF pilots available to airlines has reduced and that the proportion of pilots working for independents has probably increased, I could foresee a situation where BA crew it's aircraft from a mixture of strike breaking BA pilots (probably management, the ones most difficult to replace) and new direct entry pilots.

It should be remembered, that when President Reagan sacked all the US Air Traffic Controllers, the USA did not grind to a halt.
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Old 8th Mar 2008, 05:08   #14 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
It should be remembered, that when President Reagan sacked all the US Air Traffic Controllers, the USA did not grind to a halt.
Nor did Continental Airlines when their pilots went on strike simply because they thought that Lorenzo was not serious.

They found out, quick enough...many went back to work straightaway and told ALPA to go fly a kite.

BA pilots are, in their collective mind-set, extremely foolish.
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Old 8th Mar 2008, 06:37   #15 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Our plans for expansion at Heathrow and Gatwick mean we will be recruiting more than 300 new BA pilots in the next two years, as the London-based fleet grows to more than 240 aircraft.
Grows to more than 240 aircraft? I seem to recall it was at that number many years ago. Smoke and mirrors.

Quote:
the RAF accounted for another third,
Just as a point of information, RAF pilots did not have licences of any kind. They were not required to fly one of HM flying machines. The only RAF pilots with a commercial licence were those who were on the point of leaving the service having done the necessary CAA exams and flight tests.

Last edited by Wingswinger; 8th Mar 2008 at 07:23.
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Old 8th Mar 2008, 06:48   #16 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Whatever the rights or wrongs of any strike, any action will lead to the demise of BA.
Summer 2004 customer service staff walk out - 2004/5 Profit 513M
Summer 2005 ground handling staff walk out - 2005/6 Profit 620M
Winter 2007 cabin crew strike (effectively closed the airline) - 2006/7 Profit 611M
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Old 8th Mar 2008, 07:03   #17 (permalink)
 
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British Airways Strike Preparation

APA Communications Committee: Over the last few weeks, APA has expressed its unwavering support for the BALPA members who are fighting British Airways (BA) management’s attempts to outsource flying. The UK carrier is attempting to create an alter ego carrier, “OpenSkies,” using non-BALPA seniority list pilots to conduct 757 transatlantic operations. APA leaders are urging the BA pilots to learn from the mistakes made in the United States. In a video message to the BALPA members, APA President Captain Lloyd Hill warns that “this outsourcing of pilots has… continued to undermine the careers of professional pilots in the United States. Heed our warning, learn from our mistakes – and fight this tooth and nail!”
Recently 86 percent of BALPA pilots voted to authorize a strike in response to the “OpenSkies” operation. If BALPA does conduct a strike to resolve this issue, our support of their efforts will also need to be elevated. Your APA leadership will be directive about our actions in support of BALPA. There are many things we can do to support a BALPA strike, for example:
  • APA pilots can show support by participating in BALPA picket lines and/or APA-organized informational pickets in support of BALPA.
  • APA pilots can support stranded BA crewmembers by assisting with transportation, lodging and jumpseating (note: BA flight attendants are not eligible to fly on AA cabin jumpseats).
  • APA pilots can support BALPA through monetary contributions.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
We are with you. Regards, the pilots of AA.
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Old 8th Mar 2008, 07:05   #18 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
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maat,

Your posting history indicates you are generally quite "pro-BALPA" and have been encouraging support at Jet2.

Why do you feel it is right to support BALPA at Jet2 but not at BA?
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Old 8th Mar 2008, 07:47   #19 (permalink)
 
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Ahh but the world has moved on from those days. If BA pilots were to strike on enough occasions (more than 6 times) they would forfeit all their slot holding at LHR in a market that is just about to open up in March.

No LHR slots = no BA

The yanks and Sir Dickie Jumper must be licking their collective lips in anticipation.
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Old 8th Mar 2008, 07:51   #20 (permalink)
Couldonlyaffordafiver
 
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I hope Willie is thinking along the same lines.
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