Which is the best helicopter for training?
There's the pause. Everyone looks up and listens. The poignant music starts.
Incoming casualties!
Two R22's, line astern, swing round through the valley towards the HLS.
Nah!
Incoming casualties!
Two R22's, line astern, swing round through the valley towards the HLS.
Nah!
Join Date: May 2001
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The Schweizer is in my opinion the best training helicopter. I also flew the Bell 47 and I still provide training on a Hiller 12.
I use the Schweizer for primary training unless the student wants to start on the Hiller.
The Schweizer gives me as an instructor a lot of room (the Hiller also by the way).
When you're able to fly the Schweizer right (throttle/rpm control), you can fly anything. No I'm not talking of the R22, but that not used commercially anyway (apart from flight training)
About the hours required; that's not really important, you need a lot of hours anyway.
Nobody is hiring when you have only a minimum amount of hours.
I use the Schweizer for primary training unless the student wants to start on the Hiller.
The Schweizer gives me as an instructor a lot of room (the Hiller also by the way).
When you're able to fly the Schweizer right (throttle/rpm control), you can fly anything. No I'm not talking of the R22, but that not used commercially anyway (apart from flight training)
About the hours required; that's not really important, you need a lot of hours anyway.
Nobody is hiring when you have only a minimum amount of hours.
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Auckland,New Zealand
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Hi All,
Well four years on here is what I have to say.I trained up to CPL in the R22.Not much room,fast(For a piston)T-bar Sucks, great for Lmtd Pwr training as every take off was a cushion creep.Seat cushion always needed to be surgically removed from Butt when turbalance encountered.
Did Instructor rating in 300CB,CBi,C.300 much better chopper!Very forgiving through out the flight envelope.Heaps of room for two(Not so with three)A little more time to say "what the F**k was that" before things fall off.Bit slow!!
300C plenty of grunt and good work horse.Expensive to run.
300CB piece of crap!!!
So in my point of view the 300CBi is the way to go.
Flown with a few guys now.No difference with the flying depending on what they trained on.Good pilots are exactly that and not so good ones are the same!!
Safe flying all.
Well four years on here is what I have to say.I trained up to CPL in the R22.Not much room,fast(For a piston)T-bar Sucks, great for Lmtd Pwr training as every take off was a cushion creep.Seat cushion always needed to be surgically removed from Butt when turbalance encountered.
Did Instructor rating in 300CB,CBi,C.300 much better chopper!Very forgiving through out the flight envelope.Heaps of room for two(Not so with three)A little more time to say "what the F**k was that" before things fall off.Bit slow!!
300C plenty of grunt and good work horse.Expensive to run.
300CB piece of crap!!!
So in my point of view the 300CBi is the way to go.
Flown with a few guys now.No difference with the flying depending on what they trained on.Good pilots are exactly that and not so good ones are the same!!
Safe flying all.
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: South Florida
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Bell 47 as a basic trainer???
What are peoples thoughts on using a Bell 47 /G as a basic trainer instead of the R22? (Poss an instrument ship)
Looking at my options for teaching and am cosidering being a bit different and using a 47.
Am I mad and if not can someone point / advise me as to the pitfalls of buying and operating them.
Thanks in advance.
Looking at my options for teaching and am cosidering being a bit different and using a 47.
Am I mad and if not can someone point / advise me as to the pitfalls of buying and operating them.
Thanks in advance.
In my humble opinion it is the best trainer. However look at operating costs closely. Some of the parts are becoming hard to find and thus expensive.
I would really like to see someone buy the TC and put them back into production. Frank Robinson has proved the need for trainers and light utility ships.
I would really like to see someone buy the TC and put them back into production. Frank Robinson has proved the need for trainers and light utility ships.
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Am I mad and if not can someone point / advise me as to the pitfalls of buying and operating them.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...hreadid=188982
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Undoubtedly the best training ship available in terms of instructing in flying skills, but...........I thinkyou'll fing the operating costs so uncompetetive as to make it unviable. I hope I'm wrong!
Join Date: Apr 2003
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An entire generation of helo drivers learned on the Bell 47 - called the OH-13 by its owner. Sweet, smooth, stable, forgiving, autorotates like it wants to land without power.
The ideal trainer, in my book.
The ideal trainer, in my book.
Join Date: Mar 2000
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Sadly, it's uncompetitive in the UK, but anti-talk writes from Florida.
I've seen two American schools mentioned in threads here which charge $220-250 per hr for B47 training - one in Pennsylvania and the other in Virginia. Google will probably find some more in other states.
There's lots of useful information and opinions about the Bell 47 >> Bell 47
I've seen two American schools mentioned in threads here which charge $220-250 per hr for B47 training - one in Pennsylvania and the other in Virginia. Google will probably find some more in other states.
There's lots of useful information and opinions about the Bell 47 >> Bell 47
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In Florida but British and setting up a small operation there, really want to give the 47 a try but fuel economy is a killer in the present climate.
Joey Rhodes from the Bell 47 association has been very helpful with information and it seems that the G model is one of the preferred options for these types of operation.
I would love to offer something different to the 22 but realise that I might alienate myself from a whole raft of career pilots who NEED robbie time, am investigating leasing on an informal basis an IFR R22 trainer as and when I need it.
At the moment the plan was a 44 (astro) and a 22 but the 47 is tugging away at me to give it a go. Got to do loads more research before I dive in - thanks for the replies and advice so far.
Joey Rhodes from the Bell 47 association has been very helpful with information and it seems that the G model is one of the preferred options for these types of operation.
I would love to offer something different to the 22 but realise that I might alienate myself from a whole raft of career pilots who NEED robbie time, am investigating leasing on an informal basis an IFR R22 trainer as and when I need it.
At the moment the plan was a 44 (astro) and a 22 but the 47 is tugging away at me to give it a go. Got to do loads more research before I dive in - thanks for the replies and advice so far.
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the mighty 47
two thirds of my initial CPL in a 47 (with the balance in the R22).
IMO if running costs and fuel costs were the same for the 47 and the 22 then the decision would be a no brainer - 47 hands down every time. But sadly as mentioned fuel costs and availability do not make this economically possible.
Learning to tame the 47s manual throttle is a subtle skill and autos are a dream with the high inertia rotor system.
Sure, the 47 is old, greasy, and more expensive but it really is a great shame that many heli pilots will go to there grave having never flown one of these wonderful aircraft...
IMO if running costs and fuel costs were the same for the 47 and the 22 then the decision would be a no brainer - 47 hands down every time. But sadly as mentioned fuel costs and availability do not make this economically possible.
Learning to tame the 47s manual throttle is a subtle skill and autos are a dream with the high inertia rotor system.
Sure, the 47 is old, greasy, and more expensive but it really is a great shame that many heli pilots will go to there grave having never flown one of these wonderful aircraft...
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the mighty 47
two thirds of my initial CPL in a 47 (with the balance in the R22).
IMO if running costs and fuel costs were the same for the 47 and the 22 then the decision would be a no brainer - 47 hands down every time. But sadly as mentioned fuel costs and availability do not make this economically possible.
Learning to tame the 47s manual throttle is a subtle skill and autos are a dream with the high inertia rotor system.
Sure, the 47 is old, greasy, and more expensive but it really is a great shame that many heli pilots will go to there grave having never flown one of these wonderful aircraft...
IMO if running costs and fuel costs were the same for the 47 and the 22 then the decision would be a no brainer - 47 hands down every time. But sadly as mentioned fuel costs and availability do not make this economically possible.
Learning to tame the 47s manual throttle is a subtle skill and autos are a dream with the high inertia rotor system.
Sure, the 47 is old, greasy, and more expensive but it really is a great shame that many heli pilots will go to there grave having never flown one of these wonderful aircraft...
Join Date: Oct 2003
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Unfortunately running costs are slowly putting the old girl out to pasture. However there's at least one school in Canada that still uses them as a basic trainer:
http://www.chinookhelicopters.com/about.htm
http://www.chinookhelicopters.com/about.htm
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Sure, the 47 is old, greasy, and more expensive but it really is a great shame that many heli pilots will go to their grave having never flown one of these wonderful aircraft...
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My heart and my memories tell me that the 47 is the better training aircraft but my head (and wallet) would go with something else. I am not a huge fan of the 22/44 as a trainer but if the budget is tight that's the way to go.
Join Date: Sep 2002
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47 running costs
The 47 as already stated ideal for training, I teach on this aircraft at the moment, but some parts for example 47D1 engine baskets, common as rocking horse poo. We have been trying to locate 1, not easy. The Schwiser 300CBI is the new trainer, I think we will be moving to one next, very cost effective, timed life items are longer, cheaper, more common to find at any flying club. Worth giving them a thought. There was a good rumour that Bell would re make the 47. Now that would be fantastic, but the timed life items would need to change, but what a trainer, as stated the autortation is a no branier. I feel it also caters for the larger student, I am 6 foot 240lbs and I have bigger students too. I love the 47.... It would be a real shame to see them stop flying...
Join Date: May 2001
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darren999,
47 baskets are readily available in australia as they are manufactured here by airwork helicopters at caboolture, queensland, you can find them on the web.
i operate four bell 47's and can easily compete with the r22.
i have one of those as well. number 111, a standard, a great little ship.
47 baskets are readily available in australia as they are manufactured here by airwork helicopters at caboolture, queensland, you can find them on the web.
i operate four bell 47's and can easily compete with the r22.
i have one of those as well. number 111, a standard, a great little ship.
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The chances of getting yourself killed in a Bell-47 are a lot, lot, lot less.
I personally rather pay a bit more to fly a real helicopter.
(Hiller 12 also good alternative)
I personally rather pay a bit more to fly a real helicopter.
(Hiller 12 also good alternative)