Fuel Rules

Gaseous · 27th Nov 2002, 00:09

Right, Ive got my aircraft paked in the garden and am fed up with flying 30 miles for fuel. I think a bowser would be a good idea but Shell and Total will only deliver vast quantities. Anyone know the rules on filling at aerodrome and towing home. I've had half a dozen 'interpretations ' of the law including 'totally legal provided the labels are right' to 'they'll throw away the key'. What the full story. Also what rules for keeping 250 gallons of avgas in the shed? What do other private owners do?
Help.

LOOSE NUT · 27th Nov 2002, 08:39

GASEOUS
See my thread asking about fuel suppliers many months ago.
Ask the suppliers about the regs because they have a duty of care to only supply to sites and road transport that meets such regs.

LN

CRAN · 28th Nov 2002, 14:31

Sloane offer a bowser for R22 and R44, and therefore I assume that they must be aware of the regs for selling and opperating them.

My understanding is that the regs are stricter for Avgas than Jet A-1 as avgas is such a horrible substance but beyond that I can't help.

Here's the link to sloanes unit:

http://www.sloanehelicopters.com/accessor.htm

Hope this helps
CRAN

28th Nov 2002, 15:08

Gaseous,

The regulations are one thing, and the practicalities are quite another. Gas is funny stuff, and water in it isn't. With high atmospheric moisture and rapid temperature changes, your climate is perfect for condensation in a partially filled storage tank. A fuel tank must be vented carefully, and it must have bottom drains and filters to protect you from anything that might interrupt that loud but comforting sound as you fly.
Please check these things carefully in the storage tank you are considering before you bet everything on it. I am sure it can be done safely, but it requires some consideration.

I would recommend ferrying the gas in simple plastic boating gas tanks, which we have in the States in 5 and 10 gallon sizes at about 10 dollars each. West marine sells many tanks here. I ferried trunkfuls of such gas for my fishing boat, because I am cheap, and marinas in the States charge twice the rate of mogas for the same stuff.

Here is at least one pointer:

http://marinestore.co.uk/Merchant2/m...Code=fueltanks

ShyTorque · 28th Nov 2002, 15:42

Gaseous,

There are strict regs in UK for the transportation and storage of Petrol based liquid. I'm not sure about the allowed quantities but I know they are very small unless you have a licence. I think they might be as little as 20 litres for storage at a residential property in other than a vehicle fuel tank. Also, for road transportation of much more than a couple of spare cans I have been told you need a Hazchem clearance or suchlike.

I will research this and see if I can find out any more, as a keen car & bike person (4 + 1 at last count) it may affect me too .

My local Tesco garage lady recently went ape$hit at me when she saw me innocently filling my 25 litre jerry can at the pump.

Just found some info. You are allowed 2 x 5 litre plastic containers or 2 x 10 litre metal containers. Above those amounts you need to inform your local Petrol Licensing Authority and above 60 gallons you need a licence.

Powerful stuff, petrol when you think about it. One gallon blasts my bike 50 miles or my BMW 30 miles!

nonradio · 28th Nov 2002, 16:16

Apparently it is legal to purchase and transport up to 200 litres of petrol by road in approved containers, but the maximum you can store is 15 litres, other than in your aircraft tanks, without falling foul of the regs wrt signs, firefighting equipment etc together with authorisation from the local Trading Standards people. I use either 20l metal jerrycans or 215l oil drum depending on how flush I feel at the time. Never had a problem at my two local aerodromes with cans or drum, but have never gone to local garage with a drum, only cans...
No idea about whether or not a bowser makes a difference, although have stored up to 1500l temporarily in a borrowed bowser in the past (this was JET A1, however)
I'd be cautious about using plastic cans rather than the steel jerrycan types, especially on hot dry days. Never had aproblem with condensation, either but am careful to check tanks for water and yuk.
Anyway once you have done your own risk assessment and take very seriously the dangers of handling petrol (250 galls is a lot! Apparently equivalent to nearly 20000 sticks of dynamite), what the eye don't see the heart don't grieve over....If you're snow white and really want to know then call the HSE 01787 8811165 and ask for a free booklet regarding transport of petrol.......

ShyTorque · 28th Nov 2002, 16:32

Just discovered that the maximim penalty in UK for breaching the regs is two years in jail and / or an unlimited fine.

I have also seen that the regs are changing due to "harmonisation within Europe".

Delete reference to "Hazchem", that no longer applies but there are now regulations for "Transport of dangerous goods by road".

Try Google for more info, there is lots on there, but it's confusing and contradictory. Can only suggest you contact your local Petrol Licensing Authority.

Looks like I need to dispose of a couple of plastic cans.

I think I'll burn them.....stand back, stand back

pilotwolf · 28th Nov 2002, 21:09

I ve had similar problems, especially at Tesco when filling the outboard tanks for the boat - 25ltrs each.

If they are on the boat no ever says anything but if I try to fill them in the trailer or the boot of the car people start asking questions despite the fact they meet the regulations.

Found one way of doing it is to stop the pump every 5 ltrs and pretend to move to another can in the boot. Sneaky but easier than taking a 5ft boat into Tesco!

paco · 30th Nov 2002, 06:25

I used to work for a certian large amusement park not a million miles from Stoke-on-Trent - we had a bowser that was taken regularly to Manchester to pick up Jet A1, and was towed behind the Range Rover by the gardener.

So it can be done, but I dunno what a dog's breakfast Europe has made of the rules.

Phil

captjimmy · 2nd Dec 2002, 13:32

Not sure about these days but about 5 years ago I got caught towing 2000lts Jet A1 without any form of license and the trailer was over the vehcles max towing weight. I think I had broken about 5 laws in total it took me 5 hours to get home and they impounded the bowser. I was lucky claimed total ignorance/insanity and got away with it.
I guess what Im trying to say is be carefull you dont get caught I know I wont be doing it again. Buy yourself 5 Jerry cans put them in your boot. (someone told me you can carry up to 100lts)

TeeS · 18th Dec 2002, 07:56

Just received the latest GA Feedback from CHIRP. the lead article concerns contaminated fuel from jerry cans. The article ends with a 'reminder on the storage of fuel'.

'The maximum storage without a licence for domestic purposes is two 10-litre metal containers or two 5-litre plastic containers. Both container types must carry the words "Petrol" & "Highly Inflamable". Metal cans must have a vapour proof, securely fitting cap; plastic cans must carry the words "Complies with SI 1982/630".'

'Additional storage must comply with the relevant safety requirements. Storage and dispensing of fuel is controlled by the local Petroleum Licensing Authorities.'

Cheers

TeeS

RobertWittmann · 18th Dec 2002, 13:02

One possibility is a system developed and manufactured by

SAXON.de

They provide a solution for airfield refuelling.
Fuel from big stack for airfield refuelling.
The system meets all requirements within Germany (and that should be enough to fullfill all others worldwide).

Robert

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