Foggy Flight
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@flyingbull
"Well,
Seems quite common foggy flights...."
and yes, seems quite common as one of the main causes of fatal helicopter crashes.
Everybody should follow the HAI mantra 'land and live'
It's incredible in our industry how many, to paraphrase Red Forman (70's show), super dumb-asses there are willing to risk their own lives and also the lives of those folks paying us to transport them SAFELY.
Every pilot should be willing to lose their jobs to stand their ground when it comes to refusing pressure to do something dangerous. I've done it and will continue to do so, I'll work in McDonalds before some idiot in management or some imbecile customer forces me to an early appointment with the grim reaper!
And also, I agree with previous comments about past experience, I too have been a member of the super dumbass club and its our responsibility to educate and protect the youngsters coming up through the industry.
"Well,
Seems quite common foggy flights...."
and yes, seems quite common as one of the main causes of fatal helicopter crashes.
Everybody should follow the HAI mantra 'land and live'
It's incredible in our industry how many, to paraphrase Red Forman (70's show), super dumb-asses there are willing to risk their own lives and also the lives of those folks paying us to transport them SAFELY.
Every pilot should be willing to lose their jobs to stand their ground when it comes to refusing pressure to do something dangerous. I've done it and will continue to do so, I'll work in McDonalds before some idiot in management or some imbecile customer forces me to an early appointment with the grim reaper!
And also, I agree with previous comments about past experience, I too have been a member of the super dumbass club and its our responsibility to educate and protect the youngsters coming up through the industry.
The power lines being followed are not the ones that will kill you. It's the lines crossing up ahead, that you are blissfully unaware of.
As JE says, it's the ones you can't see that will get you.
Fortunately in UK, most wires are well marked on maps - if you are using the correct scale for your type of flight - but I know of crews in NI who arrived in fields to collect troops in a punchy quickstop to running landing style who looked up at the end to find themselves under a set of domestic wires.
@bluesideoops
"Everybody should follow the HAI mantra 'land and live' "
if you can - not always possible so.
Over sea or over forest / hill sides :-(
What worked out (especially at night) is a decision height the crew agrees on before departure.
Ones under that heigt - there is no dicussion left - its a turn back to base or landing - no further "there is a less dense area, lets try there"
"Every pilot should be willing to lose their jobs to stand their ground when it comes to refusing pressure to do something dangerous."
Not every pilot is in the transporting buiseness....
If lifes are at risk - and you and your helicopter is the only hope left - your willing to go further, fly lower, take more risks....
But you always have to consider, if you´re succesful, you´re the hero, if you crash, you´re the dumbass.....
It´s just not that easy to say no, if you know, that your no is a deathpenalty for someone.......
"Everybody should follow the HAI mantra 'land and live' "
if you can - not always possible so.
Over sea or over forest / hill sides :-(
What worked out (especially at night) is a decision height the crew agrees on before departure.
Ones under that heigt - there is no dicussion left - its a turn back to base or landing - no further "there is a less dense area, lets try there"
"Every pilot should be willing to lose their jobs to stand their ground when it comes to refusing pressure to do something dangerous."
Not every pilot is in the transporting buiseness....
If lifes are at risk - and you and your helicopter is the only hope left - your willing to go further, fly lower, take more risks....
But you always have to consider, if you´re succesful, you´re the hero, if you crash, you´re the dumbass.....
It´s just not that easy to say no, if you know, that your no is a deathpenalty for someone.......
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Not in that business, but I can see how that may influence some.
Perhaps it assists the decision paradigm to remember that your failure to say "no" could be the death penalty for all on board.
Losing several lives out weighs that one life.....sorry!
You do no one any good if you kill yourself enroute or on the way home with the casualty!
HEMS is defined as a Safe, Dependable, Efficient Aeromedical Transportation Service. Operative words Safe and Dependable.
You do no one any good if you kill yourself enroute or on the way home with the casualty!
HEMS is defined as a Safe, Dependable, Efficient Aeromedical Transportation Service. Operative words Safe and Dependable.
But weather forecast is one thing, the actual weather another...
Have lifted off with a "flyable" METAR only to turn around, cause It wasn't...
And completed missions with Metar crab- but good enough visibilty in my "back garden" where I know every wire around...
I added [URL="https://www.windy.com/[/URL]
to my briefingequipment, so I can use webcams on route and on destination, to geht a better idea how the weather and visibility is (especially at night)
Still, it's a Crew decision with our operation- every member can say, it's gone far enough....
To get things straight, I'm not flying HEMS - just searching missing persons (elderly, kids, which need medication or freeze to death, if not found in time, attempted suizide who either decide not to die anymore but are already immobilised and unaware of their actual position or attempted suizide, where we might be there before they commit and stuff like that.
It's a crazy world out there....
It´s just not that easy to say no, if you know, that your no is a death penalty for someone.....
As SASless has not yet said on this thread:
Ass----Tin----Ticket
This is my first mantra, we can mitigate risk to save to one of 3 levels.... I can save my ticket, or I can risk a little more and even save the aircraft and then mitigate more to even save my life...
Ultimately one is judged by what people say at your funeral, or what is said about you on anonymous forums like PPrune or worse yet Justhelicopters. My second mantra is "what will they say about me"... And to make it clear again... Should I go in an aircraft accident-- I insist it is discussed on this forum without the condolences... Our biggest learning tool is learning from other peoples mistakes.... Mrs "Gordy" will not be offended, and has been primed to expect the worst, and SASless will be the prime leader/moderator. of the thread.
As others have said.... YES it is.......
As SASless has not yet said on this thread:
Ass----Tin----Ticket
This is my first mantra, we can mitigate risk to save to one of 3 levels.... I can save my ticket, or I can risk a little more and even save the aircraft and then mitigate more to even save my life...
Ultimately one is judged by what people say at your funeral, or what is said about you on anonymous forums like PPrune or worse yet Justhelicopters. My second mantra is "what will they say about me"... And to make it clear again... Should I go in an aircraft accident-- I insist it is discussed on this forum without the condolences... Our biggest learning tool is learning from other peoples mistakes.... Mrs "Gordy" will not be offended, and has been primed to expect the worst, and SASless will be the prime leader/moderator. of the thread.
As SASless has not yet said on this thread:
Ass----Tin----Ticket
This is my first mantra, we can mitigate risk to save to one of 3 levels.... I can save my ticket, or I can risk a little more and even save the aircraft and then mitigate more to even save my life...
Ultimately one is judged by what people say at your funeral, or what is said about you on anonymous forums like PPrune or worse yet Justhelicopters. My second mantra is "what will they say about me"... And to make it clear again... Should I go in an aircraft accident-- I insist it is discussed on this forum without the condolences... Our biggest learning tool is learning from other peoples mistakes.... Mrs "Gordy" will not be offended, and has been primed to expect the worst, and SASless will be the prime leader/moderator. of the thread.
Sure I don't wanna become statistics.
Still, I need to decide on a flight to flight basis.
Just canceling missions because a cloud is under the "should-mark" is to easy.
It's about risk management, knowing when you take them and how big they are and sharing this decision with the crew.
And - keeping options, in case weather gets worse....
I'm actually more scared flying on weekend afternoons, when low time privat pilots and sailplanes etc. crowd the sky ....
Busy playing with their ipads and GoPros and don't look out, as they should....
At night with crab weather it's about me, my skills and my decision making, wether I will come home or not ...
FB - Agree with all you say but can you change your use of the word crab when I think you mean crap please
There are some on these pages who think the two words are synonymous but I don't think you are one of them and I realise English is not your first language
There are some on these pages who think the two words are synonymous but I don't think you are one of them and I realise English is not your first language
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FB - Agree with all you say but can you change your use of the word crab when I think you mean crap please
FB, I submit...."Below Minimums" is below minimums....period...dot!
It is when the weather is close to "Minimums" the rub comes....that is when it is a judgement call.
Hughes - hardly
crabs have hard shells not thin skin
Just wanted to know what crab weather was
crabs have hard shells not thin skinJust wanted to know what crab weather was
I'm sure I had soft shell crabs in a restaurant not too long ago.....
Gordy has a family to look out for these Days.....he must look to Tim and Tab's future!
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I prefer the term "crab" weather to "Shyte" weather.......
Hi all,
Ok, right, should be crap instead of crab - and I'm not a native speaker ;-)
About minimums- in case of missions we just have a should - not a must....
So really no minimums- it's down to pilot/crew decision in case of a hot mission.
And thats ok, cause there are METARS which say I can - but drizzle makes NVG visibility so crap ;-) that it is just to risky to continue and there are days/nights with low cloud but fairly good visibility below, allowing flying undeneath the big powerlines (1.000 feet ones) (proper crossing at low speed close to pole for maximum clearence)
As I said, my aim is it, to live another day...
had my share of hairy moments and cause I don't know, how big my bag of fortune is, I'm willing to say no, if I see the holes in the cheese lining up...
I see also, that my personal limits (also depending on the crew) are quite low in comparison- but that could be influenced by the number of hours spend in ****ty weather.
And as I said, I'm not flying without a plan B anymore - that is knowing of landing places or the option (freezing level permitting) of an IFR pick up to return home.
(Yes - not within the rules with "IFR starts at .... feet) ;-)
Ok, right, should be crap instead of crab - and I'm not a native speaker ;-)
About minimums- in case of missions we just have a should - not a must....
So really no minimums- it's down to pilot/crew decision in case of a hot mission.
And thats ok, cause there are METARS which say I can - but drizzle makes NVG visibility so crap ;-) that it is just to risky to continue and there are days/nights with low cloud but fairly good visibility below, allowing flying undeneath the big powerlines (1.000 feet ones) (proper crossing at low speed close to pole for maximum clearence)
As I said, my aim is it, to live another day...
had my share of hairy moments and cause I don't know, how big my bag of fortune is, I'm willing to say no, if I see the holes in the cheese lining up...
I see also, that my personal limits (also depending on the crew) are quite low in comparison- but that could be influenced by the number of hours spend in ****ty weather.
And as I said, I'm not flying without a plan B anymore - that is knowing of landing places or the option (freezing level permitting) of an IFR pick up to return home.
(Yes - not within the rules with "IFR starts at .... feet) ;-)
Last edited by Flying Bull; 14th Jun 2017 at 18:37.