S76 TV Tower in Istanbul/Turkey
If they were doing 140 knots plus, which was probably very likely, that kind of viz is deadly as things happen quickly. Customer pressure was more than likely the defining cause. They probably just elected to carry on at full speed instead of selecting IAS, slowing up to 90 knots and moving to plan B or C. That aircraft more than likely had GPWS too, probably with the call outs silenced. Bring on the drones.
The ground is higher there too, albeit not quite as high as to the north.
The major problem in that sector to the west is that the VFR routes require you to be above a certain height because the 2 inlets you fly over (check google - line straight from the North side of IST to the crash site) are also bird sanctuaries.
So..... if ATC are pushing you up to run in the scud at the cloud base to avoid the birds, inadvertent IMC comes into play. Likewise if it's bird migration season (no idea my end of if is or not), then potentially a large flock from the sanctuary might have an effect, either by bird strike or by contributing factor in some way.
Not nice any which way. RIP.
The major problem in that sector to the west is that the VFR routes require you to be above a certain height because the 2 inlets you fly over (check google - line straight from the North side of IST to the crash site) are also bird sanctuaries.
So..... if ATC are pushing you up to run in the scud at the cloud base to avoid the birds, inadvertent IMC comes into play. Likewise if it's bird migration season (no idea my end of if is or not), then potentially a large flock from the sanctuary might have an effect, either by bird strike or by contributing factor in some way.
Not nice any which way. RIP.
Having flown in the IST area for a few years, I can confirm everything that nowherespecial is writing.
Based on the official information so far, I would say this fatal accident is a very close copy of London a few years ago. Along the route the helicopter took there is a large area of heavy construction with lots of cranes and new buildings. I could see how the pilots were being pushed higher and higher to remain clear of these obstruction, to an altitude were they had very limited visibility horizontally, but were still able to see what's below them. The radio tower that they subsequently hit appeared out of nowhere. In this scenario, high speed leaves little margin.
Based on the official information so far, I would say this fatal accident is a very close copy of London a few years ago. Along the route the helicopter took there is a large area of heavy construction with lots of cranes and new buildings. I could see how the pilots were being pushed higher and higher to remain clear of these obstruction, to an altitude were they had very limited visibility horizontally, but were still able to see what's below them. The radio tower that they subsequently hit appeared out of nowhere. In this scenario, high speed leaves little margin.
Airframe 760749 was a DVIP configuration delivered to Eczacibasi from Coatesville around 2008. The current CEO was among the passengers.
As for cause, this tower is comparable in size to the Seattle SkyNeedle. I would imagine visibility would have to have been compromised.
Does the state of the tail section give any clues? It looks to have sheared cleanly right at the transition behind the engines. Could this be indicative of a broadside collision? Maybe they went hard pedal in a last moment reaction.
As for cause, this tower is comparable in size to the Seattle SkyNeedle. I would imagine visibility would have to have been compromised.
Does the state of the tail section give any clues? It looks to have sheared cleanly right at the transition behind the engines. Could this be indicative of a broadside collision? Maybe they went hard pedal in a last moment reaction.
I doubt very much that you could get an S76 broadside at 140 kts with the hardest of hard pedal. That tail boom looks cut about where the MR might swing down and chop it cleanly off.
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Sir Korsky, you should become an accident investigator. Your insight is truly amazing and is wasted if you do not offer your services to the NTSB or similar. Well done for putting that scenario together.
Now all we need to do is get rid of the "ifs", "probablies" and "likelies". But they're not that important if you've already figured out the scenario.
Listen to yourself ffs. There are people dead here and you are making stuff up.
Tam
Now all we need to do is get rid of the "ifs", "probablies" and "likelies". But they're not that important if you've already figured out the scenario.
Listen to yourself ffs. There are people dead here and you are making stuff up.
Tam
Yes Tam, it is harsh, but the kind of behavior suggested is common place and I see it far too frequently. Anyway, back to your Scotch and your fireplace Tam. I think it's snooze time again dear. Anyway, looking at the plummeting video, looks like a blade strike.
Last edited by Sir Korsky; 14th Mar 2017 at 13:00.
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No common clue for a direct blade strike on the tower. Most Probably they saw the tower in the last second and a very small hit was enough for all of the blades spread away around. Two blades of the four were found in a perfect condition just in the bottom of the tower.
Last edited by Bosphorus; 15th Mar 2017 at 22:22.
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The problem here is the VFR routes combined with bad weather. The Victor apron (used by helicopters ) for Atatürk Airport is located in the West. So in any case, regardless of your flight plan, you have to fly away 10 miles to the west, following the VFR routes, not to the North. And that tower is located in the middle of that WEST VFR route with 1100 feet AGL(İmagine a tower on a hill) There is only very small margin of 300-400 feet, taking into consideration that it is not allowed to fly above 1500' for VFR traffics inside İstanbul TMA.So when you combine the route with bad weather, just consider the microclimate conditions occurring over the hills, it's just a bit of perception of crew which were forced to fulfill the job given by.
One last word, it was not the fog, it was the haze together with the rain. This is why the visibility was 4km on the ground but getting worse with climbing.
One last word, it was not the fog, it was the haze together with the rain. This is why the visibility was 4km on the ground but getting worse with climbing.
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By the way;
When i look above, i just see the suggestions, speculations, likelies, recommendations and evaluations.
There is no RIP or condolances stated except nowherespecial and Tam.
It's not a video game or FFS flight, it's the reality. There is no difference with S-92 crash happened just several hours.
We lost seven people in this accident. And the two pilots were really well trained aviators.
Please try to be more human.
There is only one world we stand on it together and the air is the same we fly through.
When i look above, i just see the suggestions, speculations, likelies, recommendations and evaluations.
There is no RIP or condolances stated except nowherespecial and Tam.
It's not a video game or FFS flight, it's the reality. There is no difference with S-92 crash happened just several hours.
We lost seven people in this accident. And the two pilots were really well trained aviators.
Please try to be more human.
There is only one world we stand on it together and the air is the same we fly through.
Last edited by Bosphorus; 15th Mar 2017 at 23:12.
And the two pilots were really well trained aviators.
http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/527...oul-korea.html
My condolences to all.
