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New Rotor Student

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New Rotor Student

Old 5th Dec 2016, 02:56
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New Rotor Student

Hello all! it will be of great help if you all can suggest or share me your own techniques.
I'm a helicopter student pilot and i'm so much thrilled by what i started. But, i'm just finding it that its not as easy as i thought.
I ve almost 20 hrs of flight and i still struggle to land smoothly. As of take off, i try to keep the cyclic bit to the left and raise the collective and it starts rising so beautifully. But, when i try to do the landing approach, it is where it all turns to ****, even though i manage with the landing approach angle and bring to hover, i struggle to put down/touch down ground smoothly. Can anyone plz share me your techniques of putting the beautiful beast to ground smoothly from hover???? Thank you! (I'm flying Bell 47...m sure its fav of most people)
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Old 5th Dec 2016, 05:28
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No doubt you're spending a lot of money on your training, so I suggest you ask your instructor to demonstrate, and assist you on the controls. That's what you are paying him for. After 20 hours you should be well and truly past first solo stage.

If you need to think about what you're doing at this phase of flight you're too far behind the aircraft to be able to pull it off smoothly. I've never flown Bell 47, however if it's squirrelly in the hover like a B412 the technique I use, once in the hover is, when you start to lower the collective keep it going down. Eventually it will land.
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Old 5th Dec 2016, 06:05
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If it was easy everyone would be doing it.
First rule of flight club is relax. If you're anxious you will tense up and that makes it more difficult.
The movements and corrections need to be intuitive, overthinking it or trying to manufacture a landing will not help.
At 20 hours you're not supposed to be a rock star. Take your time, don't rush the machine.
Everyone has a different aptitude and way of understanding. It's important your instructor finds a way to help you understand how to improve. If you're not connecting it may be time to spend a couple of hours with someone else.
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Old 5th Dec 2016, 06:21
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What bell ringer says...

Plus, make a smooth control movement, then wait......

It's quite possible you are expecting to see quicker results, are trying the movement again when nothing happens and are confusing the machine.

Phil
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Old 5th Dec 2016, 08:28
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Good that you're looking to improve, and it will happen - as mentioned above, your instructor should be able to help you out, but here's a good way to approach it, I think:

1. Don't look too close to the aircraft - look out the front, don't fixate on any one thing but be aware of the horizon, and also any tendency for the machine to move (you'll see this in your peripheral vision even when looking forward).

2. Take it slow, and don't be tempted to throw the collective down to just get it on the ground; rather, just keep hovering lower and lower and don't stop flying it until the collective is fully down, cyclic and pedals centred.

3. Your collective controls the up and down, pedals control where you're pointing and cyclic which way you're dragging across the ground (if any), so lower the collective slowly but PAUSE it as soon as you sense drift (sideways or fore and aft, which you will fix with a small cyclic input in the other direction) or yaw (which you will fix with pedal). Only when you have cancelled drift and yaw should you continue smoothly lowering the collective. Then just repeat the above until you're happily on the ground.

4. Every landing is a slope landing, so be prepared that if the aircraft is hanging left skid low, as soon as that skid touches and the body rolls right, you'll need a bit of left cyclic to stop a drag across the ground to the right. Think about the way the disc and therefore your lift vector follows what you do with the cyclic - if you don't move it and your body tilts right (seeing as your bum is strapped into the tilting helicopter) then your lift vector will also tilt right, dragging you and your machine bodily and embarrassingly across the tarmac!

Relax, enjoy, don't rush, stop all drift and yaw before continuing to move that collective and you'll be fine.
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Old 5th Dec 2016, 08:53
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when you start to lower the collective keep it going down
Very important. Every little bit lower you get, the more lift you're getting from ground effect, so you have to compensate by keeping the collective going down. With not much experience, if you just lower the lever what you think is enough to get the machine on the ground, then frequently the additional ground effect just soaks up your efforts and leaves you grabbing at the machine because it didn't do the landing you expected.

When a student is gripped by the yips I've had some success getting them to take advantage of the natural oscillations in hover height. It's somehow easier to avoid the yips if the machine has already decided to start the downward movement. Another exercise that seems to help is practising hovering as low as possible whilst trying NOT to land.
 
Old 5th Dec 2016, 09:28
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First : look faraway don't look yourfeet !

Trick on the B47.... ( don't repeat to others ) when you are in over on the ground effect ready to land....turn sligthly the trhottle on the collective to lose 100 rpm....

That's all, he land by himself smoothly
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Old 5th Dec 2016, 10:46
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If you can take off smoothly, you can land smoothly.

Look at the hover attitude of your B 47 - I'm guessing it is a couple of degrees nose up and a couple of degrees left wing low.

On the ground (if it is level) you will have nose and wings level (or close enough)

On take off, you use a little left cyclic and some aft cyclic as you raise the lever to get the aircraft very close to hover attitude before you break ground completely.

For landing, as the rear of the left skid touches the ground, allow the cyclic to move slightly right and forward so that the transfer from hover attitude to skid on the ground attitude is made gradually.

If it is the last 2 feet to the ground that is the problem then use the advice given in previous posts - if you can get from 10 feet to 2 feet without trouble, you can get from 2 feet to the ground.

LWAPAM - look well ahead and pick a marker Good luck and keep at it.
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Old 5th Dec 2016, 11:11
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Think of riding a bike forward motion is stability. So look up have a slight forward motion and the ac will land itself i.e. forward and down. Keep it as one smooth movement i.e. don't stop start otherwise you won't see the rate of change. Once you can land by just tickling her forward that will give you confidence to stop and go straight down
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Old 5th Dec 2016, 11:49
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I second what Hughes 500 has said: a very slight forward movement on landing helped me in the early days.
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Old 5th Dec 2016, 12:20
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Well Ugyen I am glad you are seeking guidance to help you progress. Don't worry about how many hours it takes you to nail the landing and that very special solo. Once in a 2 to 3 foot stable hover lowering the collect 1mm will make the nose lower slightly and initiate the landing. The nose dropping slightly will make the helicopter want to move forward and I suspect you trying to stop this which is causing you to then over control. Like others have said, let it move forward and the helicopter will land itself. Once you have mastered this phase you can work on a very precise landing. Keep at it and make Bhutan proud.
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Old 5th Dec 2016, 14:47
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Don't roll off throttle !!! That is a cheating method of landing and could go pear shaped if you have to lift off immediately for any reason , especially if you are heavy . It's an old timers trick not to be copied !!
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Old 5th Dec 2016, 15:31
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I must admit that the rolling off the throttle technique was something I used to use when the machine got the collywobbles near the hangar doors. I would put the nose 20-30 degrees to the right of the wind direction (US made machine) and roll off in a low hover and pride myself if it ended up directly into wind when on the ground.

Perhaps not a good idea for a beginner.
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Old 5th Dec 2016, 16:19
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Definitely not, though it works on the Scout if you beep down once on the collective switch.
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Old 5th Dec 2016, 18:10
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Wish I'd known that - back in the day
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Old 5th Dec 2016, 20:17
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Had the same problem on the R22 many years ago. Stable hover and keep the collective going down with a the heli moving very slightly forward helped me beat it. After you get more confidence and relax on the controls you wont need the forward movement .
Good luck and most of all enjoy !

B.G
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Old 6th Dec 2016, 14:12
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Relax all your muscles, especially the grip on the control and your legs. Slight changes in pressures on the controls as small as you can make. The idea is not know you have landed until the collective bottoms.
Do NOT think about the landing itself, especially a smooth touchdown! That will make you anxious, tense, and incline you to rush, especially bad when you start "feeling for the ground" or assume you have touched down.
Concentrate on holding the aircraft in position and slowly descending. If you move off the position stop the descent until you are where you want to land, relaxed with the aircraft motionless again, at which point you concentrate on maintaining position while gradually reducing power.
Landing the aircraft has no difference to hovering except you allow descent. Eventually the descent will result in ground contact and that makes people anxious about that point, which makes the process unnecessarily difficult. It is and should be seamless from the time you hold position until the collective bottoms out.
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