Are Police Helicopters Really Necessary?
there is no evidence they save lives
Too early to make concrete judgements on the crash in south London - at which there was an air ambulance.
But of course there is no evidence they save lives...... It is therefore fortunate that the public remain deluded on that point and continue to spin their 10p peices into the collection tins!
One such deluded person will be representing us in Rio shortly...
Speed, strength and skill – new film from EHAAT highlights Jonny Coggan’s road to Rio
The former airlifted patient of Essex and Herts Air Ambulance sets off for Rio this week to represent Great Britain in the Wheelchair Rugby tournament, his fourth Paralympic Games.
As the charity point out it would have been easy for him to think his sporting dreams were over when, on April 11th, 2000, he found himself being flown to hospital by Essex Air Ambulance after a road traffic collision left him paralysed.
After the crash Essex Air Ambulance was called to transport Jonny to hospital.
Jonny said: “Essex Air Ambulance was called because I needed to get to a specialist spinal hospital as quickly as possible and as soon as they arrived, I knew I was in safe hands. The speed with which they worked and got me to Stoke Mandeville Hospital was critical to my recovery.
“Speed, skill and strength are the three things I rely on in my sport, and they are the three things that saved my life that day.”
So..... what does he know....
https://youtu.be/7WVw9y5Czsc
But of course there is no evidence they save lives...... It is therefore fortunate that the public remain deluded on that point and continue to spin their 10p peices into the collection tins!
One such deluded person will be representing us in Rio shortly...
Speed, strength and skill – new film from EHAAT highlights Jonny Coggan’s road to Rio
The former airlifted patient of Essex and Herts Air Ambulance sets off for Rio this week to represent Great Britain in the Wheelchair Rugby tournament, his fourth Paralympic Games.
As the charity point out it would have been easy for him to think his sporting dreams were over when, on April 11th, 2000, he found himself being flown to hospital by Essex Air Ambulance after a road traffic collision left him paralysed.
After the crash Essex Air Ambulance was called to transport Jonny to hospital.
Jonny said: “Essex Air Ambulance was called because I needed to get to a specialist spinal hospital as quickly as possible and as soon as they arrived, I knew I was in safe hands. The speed with which they worked and got me to Stoke Mandeville Hospital was critical to my recovery.
“Speed, skill and strength are the three things I rely on in my sport, and they are the three things that saved my life that day.”
So..... what does he know....
https://youtu.be/7WVw9y5Czsc
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Mate, seriously?
It's literally just occurred, people have died and you're tapping out that sort of ****e?
It was in London FFS, how many rotary on call?
You don't know the circumstances, how long it was being followed and people have died. Nice one.
It's literally just occurred, people have died and you're tapping out that sort of ****e?
It was in London FFS, how many rotary on call?
You don't know the circumstances, how long it was being followed and people have died. Nice one.
During my own experience as a police pilot, when we turned up overhead an ongoing vehicle pursuit it often allowed the "blues and twos" on the ground to be turned off, taking the perceived pressure off the pursuee. The control room commander not infrequently ordered this to be done. The errant car driver almost always slowed down and took fewer risks. Obviously you can't see how this makes it safer for everyone - so be it.
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Oddly enough PAN I agree with a lot of those points. I don't agree with the fact you can demand/or expect a service when your in need.......... they are charities who strive to do that but its bloody expensive you know. Thats like demanding that the RNLI ( whom I admire greatly) pitch up when needed, yes they do but they as well are a charity and sadly the end result is someone has to do the maths with funding........ its kinda nuts when me you and Jo public are demanding that a charity provides a service. SAR and police do a 24 hr service of course, well the police soon in various bases ( subject to aviation norms, of weather etc etc etc)
As you say NPAS and SAR are a national thing so 24 hr cover is provided....... with government backing, HEMS charities would probably love to use the wording.... a solid commitment to night 24 hour OPS at all our units...........But as always its all about funding......if what you say is right about units who are night flying bringing their operating hours back, I am quite sure ( hope) they have scrutinised that to death to make sure they they are doing it for the right reasons.
As you say NPAS and SAR are a national thing so 24 hr cover is provided....... with government backing, HEMS charities would probably love to use the wording.... a solid commitment to night 24 hour OPS at all our units...........But as always its all about funding......if what you say is right about units who are night flying bringing their operating hours back, I am quite sure ( hope) they have scrutinised that to death to make sure they they are doing it for the right reasons.
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As for HEMS, there is far less evidence they actually save lives. In fact none.
Still, regardless of whether or not they prevent an actual death from occurring, does it not save society money when someone with a traumatic brain injury can make it to neurosurgery quickly and make a complete recovery? Or how about making the difference between someone who makes a full recovery from a heart attack vs having enough permanent damage to their heart so that they are unable to have any sort of quality of life?
In either of these situations, patients will live, but quality of life and what they can contribute to society would be another story.
But then again, this is about police helicopters...
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That's a ridiculous and unjustified accusation. I'm deeply concerned that we have lost much of the excellent police aviation organisation we had only a few years ago. Point scoring has nothing to do with what I posted.
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I'm not letting you off so easily with some sort of faux wounded outrage. Read your own bloody post!
You have posted factually wrong information (numbers of those tragically killed) based on an incident that you have no clue about to support your own theories and agenda.
I withdraw from this along with my pity.
You have posted factually wrong information (numbers of those tragically killed) based on an incident that you have no clue about to support your own theories and agenda.
I withdraw from this along with my pity.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Rotate too late,
Listening to the the radio news while I was driving in this evening , the report was that four people were believed to have been killed when ...
Your rant has the benefit of actual/factual hindshight; at the time of Shy's post it was correct based on the reported facts at the time.
∴ Probably a good thing for you to scuttle away.
Listening to the the radio news while I was driving in this evening , the report was that four people were believed to have been killed when ...
Your rant has the benefit of actual/factual hindshight; at the time of Shy's post it was correct based on the reported facts at the time.
∴ Probably a good thing for you to scuttle away.
Green eyes, you cant have data to prove there is no evidence!!! Please PM me the data you claim to have and I would be happy to critique it. Manchester University did the definitive audit of HEMS and concluded the only lives saved are isolated head injuries where the helicopter carries a doctor and no doctor could be otherwise delivered. At the time it was 1-2 cases per year within the M25, now with rapid intervention units it is even less.
Sadly your comments about brain injury and heart attacks sound logical but heart attacks are stabilized as well by paramedics in the field as by doctors. Intervention occurs in hospital and the therapeutic time window is either not improved or is not an issue in these cases.
Anyhow, as you say it is about police helicopters. I was merely making the point that necessity is hard to define and may be more relevant to whether the individual has to pay for it or not!
Sadly your comments about brain injury and heart attacks sound logical but heart attacks are stabilized as well by paramedics in the field as by doctors. Intervention occurs in hospital and the therapeutic time window is either not improved or is not an issue in these cases.
Anyhow, as you say it is about police helicopters. I was merely making the point that necessity is hard to define and may be more relevant to whether the individual has to pay for it or not!
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Originally Posted by homonculus
The 43.8% of the population who pay no tax want more spent.
I/C
*And, yes, probably generate more as well...
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Homonculus, I don't feel like hijacking this thread for HEMS and I can't PM you (I think it has something to do with the age of my account). Could you PM me? Maybe that open that function up for me.
However, I would suggest that the effectiveness of both police helicopter and HEMS services differ greatly based on the location and needs of the population they are serving.
PS - Could you please send me the link of the paramedic program that you claim is able to perform an angioplasty in the field? I know some guys in HEMS that would be very interested in that.
However, I would suggest that the effectiveness of both police helicopter and HEMS services differ greatly based on the location and needs of the population they are serving.
PS - Could you please send me the link of the paramedic program that you claim is able to perform an angioplasty in the field? I know some guys in HEMS that would be very interested in that.
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Rotate too late,
Listening to the the radio news while I was driving in this evening , the report was that four people were believed to have been killed when ...
Your rant has the benefit of actual/factual hindshight; at the time of Shy's post it was correct based on the reported facts at the time.
∴ Probably a good thing for you to scuttle away.
Listening to the the radio news while I was driving in this evening , the report was that four people were believed to have been killed when ...
Your rant has the benefit of actual/factual hindshight; at the time of Shy's post it was correct based on the reported facts at the time.
∴ Probably a good thing for you to scuttle away.
Avoid imitations
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Air police, I didn't understand why my post seemed to be regarded as "point scoring" by "RTL". I hadn't intended to be in competition with anyone or for it to be offensive in any way. Nor was I expressing "faux wounded outrage". I was merely expressing my opinion based on experience in the job. But never mind, he/she has taken umbrage and left the discussion.
I think this
is more the faux outrage - possibly a Daily Mail reader
Mate, seriously?
It's literally just occurred, people have died and you're tapping out that sort of ****e?
It was in London FFS, how many rotary on call?
You don't know the circumstances, how long it was being followed and people have died. Nice one.
It's literally just occurred, people have died and you're tapping out that sort of ****e?
It was in London FFS, how many rotary on call?
You don't know the circumstances, how long it was being followed and people have died. Nice one.
Answering the question....
Limitless pot of money - Yes - for the same reason that liposuction should be available on NHS; nice if can be afforded, why wouldn't you.
Limited pot of money - No - for the reason already mentioned in another thread - 'scroat' is usually given a 'rap on the knuckles'. Great for searching for lost kids but drones will be doing that in not to distant future at fraction of cost.
Choppers are a 'nicety' but far from essential imho.
Limited pot of money - No - for the reason already mentioned in another thread - 'scroat' is usually given a 'rap on the knuckles'. Great for searching for lost kids but drones will be doing that in not to distant future at fraction of cost.
Choppers are a 'nicety' but far from essential imho.
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Derek Dilworth found after spending two nights on moors in storms | Plymouth Herald
Very well done NPAS Exeter
Cornwall Search and Rescue worked for hours to try to locate the pensioner over the weekend, and issued an appeal to the public, asking people to check their gardens and outbuildings as it was suspected Mr Dilworth might have sought shelter as the region was battered by torrential rain and strong winds on Saturday.
More than 50 team members from Cornwall and the four different Dartmoor teams, three search dog teams and five Land Rovers joined forces to search extensive areas of woodland and moorland close to the Mr Dilworth's home in the Darley Ford Quarry area of Liskeard.
The teams worked with officers from Devon and Cornwall police as fears grew for the pensioner's welfare.
Mr Dilworth was reported as being found safe on Bodmin Moor at about Sunday lunchtime after the Devon and Cornwall police helicopter crew located him on moorland.
The helicopter crew reported that they landed to assist with the search of this "high risk" missing person "in deteriorating weather".
He was then flown to hospital for medical checks.
More than 50 team members from Cornwall and the four different Dartmoor teams, three search dog teams and five Land Rovers joined forces to search extensive areas of woodland and moorland close to the Mr Dilworth's home in the Darley Ford Quarry area of Liskeard.
The teams worked with officers from Devon and Cornwall police as fears grew for the pensioner's welfare.
Mr Dilworth was reported as being found safe on Bodmin Moor at about Sunday lunchtime after the Devon and Cornwall police helicopter crew located him on moorland.
The helicopter crew reported that they landed to assist with the search of this "high risk" missing person "in deteriorating weather".
He was then flown to hospital for medical checks.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Proof of the pudding
I guess that one mission pretty much says it all. And that covers the worth of both the police and the HEMS mission.
I guess that one mission pretty much says it all. And that covers the worth of both the police and the HEMS mission.
Isn't the clue of the police helicopter at the hospital HLS big enough?
Expand HEMS role
simple - bolt on a sensor, duct tape the wiring and now you have S&HEMS.
CBT whilst hanging about the crew room will cover the FLIR training.
YAA are already talking about fitting a winch so add an 'R'
S&RHEMs
Make it a silent 'H' as everyone knows by now that only helicopters come to the rescue....
You could argue that the 'E' is duplication as such tasks are not done for pleasure so it is always an Emergency.
S&RMS looks ungainly and the '&' is tricky and therefore makes name badges more expensive so replace with a stock letter like an 'A'
SARMS - looking familiar yet?
Will not be long before Bristows bid for the NPAS contract........
Excellent result with the Bodmin Moor case - how come they always appear to be found there?
I would have gone straight there ;-)
Tongue slightly in cheek but why not?
Also removes the often-cited tax-payer justification for retaining the copper chopper.
CBT whilst hanging about the crew room will cover the FLIR training.
YAA are already talking about fitting a winch so add an 'R'
S&RHEMs
Make it a silent 'H' as everyone knows by now that only helicopters come to the rescue....
You could argue that the 'E' is duplication as such tasks are not done for pleasure so it is always an Emergency.
S&RMS looks ungainly and the '&' is tricky and therefore makes name badges more expensive so replace with a stock letter like an 'A'
SARMS - looking familiar yet?
Will not be long before Bristows bid for the NPAS contract........
Excellent result with the Bodmin Moor case - how come they always appear to be found there?
I would have gone straight there ;-)
Tongue slightly in cheek but why not?
Also removes the often-cited tax-payer justification for retaining the copper chopper.
